Concerns about Shenmue HD.

(Shenmue I & II Re-Release Discussion)

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Yokosuka » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:27 pm

Reprise wrote: I think the fact Sega are not marketing or referring to this collection as either HD, Remastered or Definitive speaks volumes. Maybe I'm wrong? It seems like we as fans have built up our expectations, when Sega have never hyped these up as being amazing, 'definitive HD remasters'.

Look, I made a post a few years back. I can't remember if it was here or another forum, but I remember saying something along the lines of "hell, just give me Shenmue 1 and 2, up the resolution to 1080p, slap them on a disc with dual audio options and I'll be happy". Maybe that's all we're really getting *shrug*

Sega have ported a lot of old games in the past with only minor upgrades. I mean didn't their Sonic Adventure HD port last generation mix 4:3 and 16:9 (or maybe it was just exclusively in 4:3)?


Tbf, rough remasters are not exclusive to Sega. Beyond Good & Evil HD, Final Fantasy X, Devil May Cry Collection, Ratchet & Clank HD, God of War Vita, all these remasters didn't have proper 16:9 support.

Personally, I don't feel such a resentment towards Sega, neither D3T though. It's just that the port will not add any substantial value (widescreen, 60 fps or audio improvement) for me who played the both games on emulator. So I see no reason to replay them at the moment.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Anthony817 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:28 pm

Jibby wrote:
Reprise wrote:But they haven't once referred to it as either remastered or any of the usual slogans that get thrown around with HD remasters. It's not called 'Shenmue 1 & 2 HD', it's not called Shenmue 1 & 2 Definitive Collection, it's not called Shenmue 1 & 2 Remastered'. It's just called Shenmue 1 & 2. Whenever they refer to the collection, I don't see them making effort to state that it's a remaster. Even the community manager at Sega who posted at Shenmue 500k today referred to them as a 're-release', not a remaster or whatever.

That's par for the course when it comes to SEGA though. They've never actually called their remasters "remasters". Look at the steam version of Sonic Adventure 2 for example. It's an HD remaster by all definitions, but it's simply listed as "Sonic Adventure 2". The same goes Jet Set Radio and every other game they've brought back. Not including a subtitle like "Remastered" or "HD" just seems to be a SEGA quirk. Not saying that it's a good thing, but that just seems to be how it is with them.


I think people get HD, Remaster and definitive editions confused.

HD port is simply that. A port of a game to a new system with HD video resolution and very few other fixes.

Remaster is where a game is completely revamped from the ground up, and is given new model geometry, and textures to both the character models, and statics.

A definitive edition to me is more or less like a PC port of a modern console game, that has slightly better textures and models and features from past console versions. A CLEAR example of this is being GTA V. The GTA V port on PC actually falls into both a remaster of the previous gen game, as well as definitive edition.

This irks me to no end when people get them confused. I mean how hard is it to understand there are clear differences between what each kind of port is?

So those ports to Xbox 360, PS3 and Steam Sega did years back would be what you call an HD port. Not a remaster or Definitive edition.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Valascaziel » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:28 pm

What exactly is speculatory about it? I'm confused...wasnt it in the Famitsu article? Are they in the business of just saying things? I'm not being an ass, or flippant. I don't really understand. I thought that part was translated and confirmedM
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Jibby » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:31 pm

Valascaziel wrote: What exactly is speculatory about it? I'm confused...wasnt it in the Famitsu article? Are they in the business of just saying things? I'm not being an ass, or flippant. I don't really understand. I thought that part was translated and confirmedM

If you read my post in the Famitsu thread, you'll see.
Essentially we have a small chunk of text translated that doesn't show any implication as to whether or not they are basing that on what they have seen so far, or if they've managed to confirm that from the devs.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Valascaziel » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:34 pm

All right.

Well, I think that would be a grevious error on their part to do. I really think fully 16:9 is the way to go. I do hope they don't do that.

We pandered for years for them to see the light of day again and I'm letting my emotions get the best of me, because I feel like Sega is phone-a-porting to boost their intrinsic value in consumer eyes.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Jibby » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:37 pm

Valascaziel wrote: Well, I think that would be a grevious error on their part to do. I really think fully 16:9 is the way to go. I do hope they don't do that.

I'm in complete agreement. Not having full 16:9 would be a bit of a disappointment to say the least. But all we can do at this point is wait for more solid info about it.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Spaghetti » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:38 pm

This is a port from source code rather than emulation wrapper, plus new controls, plus dual audio, plus retail release, and whatever else is still yet to be revealed - this is 100% not a low effort job and I hope even those critical of it so far recognise that.

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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Valascaziel » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:41 pm

Yeah, it's just too jarring. A very good comparison to drive home my point is Resident Evil 4. The original game was upscaled, but they didn't do the Separate Ways or Assignment Ada cutscenes, which I believe were cropped and standard res; thus, they looked like absolute shit compared to the game and detracted from the package as a whole.



You may have played it and know what I'm talking about, but otherwise there are YouTube videos.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Jibby » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:42 pm

Oh for sure; I've played my fair share of poor remasters, but I'm very confident that Shenmue will not be one of these.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby BlueMue » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:49 pm

Well this doesn't exactly sound good but without proper context this is delicate to deal with so I'll definately wait.

70% completion sound pretty far but most of it is porting the code and redesigning the HUD, wich aparently have been done. All the rest is optimization so the proper adjustment of the screen might still be part of the 30% left.

If they do however absolutely have or want to keep the original aspect ratio for cutscenes then it becomes rather problematic. Going by that screenshot of the Yuan cutscene for Shenmue II it would not only revert to pillarboxing it to 4:3 but also letterboxing that 4:3 to 1.85:1, essentially forcing what is called windowboxing onto the cutscenes.
But since they can't present something like this and the whole thing can be adjusted to be zoomed in to fill the screen by changing the code for the camera just by a single value I really doubt this is what we're going to end up with.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Reprise » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:00 pm

Anthony817 wrote:
I think people get HD, Remaster and definitive editions confused.

HD port is simply that. A port of a game to a new system with HD video resolution and very few other fixes.

Remaster is where a game is completely revamped from the ground up, and is given new model geometry, and textures to both the character models, and statics.

A definitive edition to me is more or less like a PC port of a modern console game, that has slightly better textures and models and features from past console versions. A CLEAR example of this is being GTA V. The GTA V port on PC actually falls into both a remaster of the previous gen game, as well as definitive edition.

This irks me to no end when people get them confused. I mean how hard is it to understand there are clear differences between what each kind of port is?


Well it doesn't help when studios use those terms interchangeably on their releases. Some games, regardless of whether they're labeled HD, remastered or definitive, have had f all done to them other than a bit of upscaling. Whilst other games (again regardless of what they're labeled as), might have large amounts of work put into them to enhance and improve them.

I don't think it is as cut and dry as you make it out to be, to be honest. And actually, I think terms like 'remastered' and 'definitive' are used more now because if studios want to repackage or resell last generation games (e.g. Dark Souls, Heavy Rain, The Last of Us, Darksiders, Dishonored - all of which were either labeled as remastered or definitive and yet some have very little work put into them, others have more work put in), they can't simply call them HD versions any more, because the original games were also in HD, so they just came up with new buzzwords.

The only thing that irks me is when people don't understand the difference between a remaster (or HD or definitive or whatever you want to call it) and a remake, because that is straight forward,
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Spaghetti » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:18 pm

BlueMue wrote: Well this doesn't exactly sound good but without proper context this is delicate to deal with so I'll definately wait.

70% completion sound pretty far but most of it is porting the code and redesigning the HUD, wich aparently have been done. All the rest is optimization so the proper adjustment of the screen might still be part of the 30% left.

If they do however absolutely have or want to keep the original aspect ratio for cutscenes then it becomes rather problematic. Going by that screenshot of the Yuan cutscene for Shenmue II it would not only revert to pillarboxing it to 4:3 but also letterboxing that 4:3 to 1.85:1, essentially forcing what is called windowboxing onto the cutscenes.
But since they can't present something like this and the whole thing can be adjusted to be zoomed in to fill the screen by changing the code for the camera just by a single value I really doubt this is what we're going to end up with.

And as Kiske pointed out in the Famitsu thread there's this oddity from the trailer:

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It doesn't feel like we've gotten to the bottom of the hows and whys yet.

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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Peter » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:28 pm

Wait, so hang on. That right there is 100% a cutscene from Shenmue 2. Yet it's not 4:3 or letterboxed? What's going on.

I know we have had our back and forth on here and we are all excited, but I think the best course of action is to be a little bit patient and as Spags said, get some more info here.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Gen » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:34 pm

In a pressrelease, Sega did refer to these as the definitive versions of both games.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby life_247 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:46 pm

Jibby wrote:
life_247 wrote:So they have simply banged in a quick port of the Xbox version


life_247 wrote:It’s a PS Store release dressed up as a proper remaster.


Again let me reiterate: it's ok to discuss these concerns, but when you begin passing this speculation off as fact like the above examples it becomes a problem. Please be mindful of this when discussing further.



Maybe a bit reactionary on my part but I stand by the it’s a PS Store release dressed up as a remaster comment. With the informatoion provided in the video thus far (the one on the web site) it’s a new menu, hd hud, remapped controls and set to run at 1080p. Very threadbare!

Again if this was digital only for £10 each - great! But a full retail release seems very worrying!

I fear this is Sega cashing in - 3rd party studio doing a direct port of a console game from 2 generations ago.

Yakuza Kiwami is a completely redone 1st game that retails for the same amount. Crash bandicoot also got the same treatment with all 3 games and a similar Spyro collection is arriving in September. All of these collections retail for the same price as the “Shenmue I & II” collection. For what they’ve announced it is vastly overpriced compared to their competitors.
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