Gaming Thoughts Of The Day 2.0

[Bluecast]

not sit around and point out what's wrong and what other people should do.

Are you new to the internet? That's what everyone does,we are doing that right now

[St. Elmo's Fire]

People should care because in reality it hasn't happened, we can point to singular cases but the sad truth is that as a whole the way the community perceives things is terrible. Look at Far Cry 3, the author came out and said "its all true", the racism the sexism he put it all in there to make a point that people would defend it and they did. (I actually came to respect that game alot because of that)

Link plz? Having myself thought it was a bit "Hollywood" with the whole "Cali rich white kid lands on island of "savages" and ends up saving the day" scenario, I'd be quite interested in reading about that.
What do you mean by respecting it for that reason though? Just for the sheer front of the arseholes designing and selling it like that, then actually admitting it? Or did I read it badly, and they released it like to highlight the problem to those with enough awareness to notice?

[Thief]

not sit around and point out what's wrong and what other people should do.

Are you new to the internet? That's what everyone does,we are doing that right now

Now that is me contradicting myself

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

Neither feminism nor equality has a place in the development of games because all it suggests is censorship. It's acceptable as an idea to discuss and explore within the medium, but as a means to devalue the ideas and creations of others -- it's ridiculous. She should try to actively make a change herself, not sit around and point out what's wrong and what other people should do.

As I mentioned before, we shouldn't sit here and say we won't use these ideas at all, but being more aware of the tropes, why they exist and what we can do about writing more believable women is important. This isn't a roadmap of development we all must follow, but an exposition of why so many female characters are crappy. I agree she's going about it in the wrong way, but the questions still need to be asked.

As for feminism and equality having "no place" But thats what studio Ghibli is based off of. (see spoiler)

MIYAZAKI: One thing I've learned from working with women is that they have the ability to persevere. Men may be faster out the gate, but I also think men's concentration tends to lag over a period of time. Women, though...they can really dig in there for the long haul, once the goal is set. My experience is that, when working with a big staff, it's always best to have a diverse a group as possible. Group dynamics are alwasy the same, after all; you're just as likely to find the same ratio of "good people" in a group of priests as you are in a motorcycle gang. By "good people," I mean those who can lead and influence the whole group.

http://www.angelfire.com/anime/NVOW/Interview1.html

"Miyazaki is a feminist, actually. He has this conviction that to be successful, companies have to make it possible for their female employees to succeed too. You can see this attitude in Princess Mononoke. All characters working the bellows in the iron works are women. Then there's Porco Rosso. Porco's plane is rebuilt entirely by women." -Toshio Suzuki

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZtnNdJP83I

People should care because in reality it hasn't happened, we can point to singular cases but the sad truth is that as a whole the way the community perceives things is terrible. Look at Far Cry 3, the author came out and said "its all true", the racism the sexism he put it all in there to make a point that people would defend it and they did. (I actually came to respect that game alot because of that)

Link plz? Having myself thought it was a bit "Hollywood" with the whole "Cali rich white kid lands on island of "savages" and ends up saving the day" scenario, I'd be quite interested in reading about that.
What do you mean by respecting it for that reason though? Just for the sheer front of the arseholes designing and selling it like that, then actually admitting it? Or did I read it badly, and they released it like to highlight the problem to those with enough awareness to notice?

From what i understand its partially both but I kind of realize its something like the Toxic Avenger of this gen. Spec ops had that kind of writing as well, the whole idea behind the game was to shit on popular military shooters.

“When you’re with Citra in front of the warriors, that’s Jason’s fantasy, you know the white guy from LA has sex with this beautiful woman, it’s very gratuitous, and it’s in front of the whole tribe. It’s a fantasy that we’ve seen in pop culture cinema.”

“People will get 2/3 through the game or halfway through the game, and they’ll think that they know and they stop listening. And it’s like no no no no no, we’re gonna take that and totally loop it back on what you think it is, and we’re agreeing with the critique!”

I was totally one of those people I'm glad I finished the game.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editoria ... ture-of-th

[Thief]

It's fine if the creator is feminist and it is portrayed in his/her work, but when it's used to attack and devalue the creations of others is when it has "no place". Miyazaki is free to do whatever the hell he wants.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

This is what I'm trying to explain though, I don't agree with her evaluations because she's trying to devalue some female characters by only telling one side of the story. She's biased in this, or atleast it appears that way to me, and thats why i don't think this particular discussion is sucessful.

On the other hand, part of the reason I brought up Ludo-narrative dissonance is because of my feelings on Tomb Raider. I really liked gameplay Lara, but hated "story" Lara. The marketing and narrative try to convince the player that Lara is in need off protecting, but then I have her slit a guy's throat and cut his head off. Lara Croft is young and still learning, and when the story tries to push that shes a survivor on you it mostly just makes her mean instead of being particularly strong willed. I had trouble enjoying the game because someone decided Lara needed to be "protected" when in reality, she's fucking Lara Croft.

I think designers do need to think about how they treat characters especially in gameplay because things like ludo narrative dissonance can happen. They're free to do whatever they like, but we need to realize that if we want to respectfully write about something we know nothing about we can't just wing it....fuck all now I'm contradicting myself too.

[Bluecast]

This is what I'm trying to explain though, I don't agree with her evaluations because she's trying to devalue some female characters by only telling one side of the story. She's biased in this, or atleast it appears that way to me, and thats why i don't think this particular discussion is sucessful.

On the other hand, part of the reason I brought up Ludo-narrative dissonance is because of my feelings on Tomb Raider. I really liked gameplay Lara, but hated "story" Lara. The marketing and narrative try to convince the player that Lara is in need off protecting, but then I have her slit a guy's throat and cut his head off. Lara Croft is young and still learning, and when the story tries to push that shes a survivor on you it mostly just makes her mean instead of being particularly strong willed. I had trouble enjoying the game because someone decided Lara needed to be "protected" when in reality, she's fucking Lara Croft.

I think designers do need to think about how they treat characters especially in gameplay because things like ludo narrative dissonance can happen. They're free to do whatever they like, but we need to realize that if we want to respectfully write about something we know nothing about we can't just wing it....fuck all now I'm contradicting myself too.

I know I am not the audience and the popular thing is gritty reboots and that's not my thing. I know TR got great reviews. I just have no interest as it looks like Uncharted with a chick just insecure til she shoves an arrow in a guys throat..makes little sense. I know the older games before going downhill were sorta sexist but at the same time made her kick ass and strong brit accent. Strong and sexy. Also was less realism and more fun. I won't get into the bore of so tired of gritty everything.

One character people often forget to mention is Faith from Mirrors Edge or Jade.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

Both were seen as failures in the eyes of their publishers. Shit I'd take 2 of each 2 starring both of those 2.

Man fuck reviews, if you're reading a review and someone tries to sell you on "caring" for Lara they fell for the PR.

[Thief]

I think for the most part we're in agreement with one another Segata. I'm just not very good at conveying what I mean especially over text and waiting for replies. Sometimes I wish I could talk in person with someone.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

I think for the most part we're in agreement with one another Segata. I'm just not very good at conveying what I mean especially over text and waiting for replies. Sometimes I wish I could talk in person with someone.

Nah man no worries, I've gotta get better at that too, I'm a tool 90% of the time.

[St. Elmo's Fire]

From what i understand its partially both but I kind of realize its something like the Toxic Avenger of this gen. Spec ops had that kind of writing as well, the whole idea behind the game was to shit on popular military shooters.

“When you’re with Citra in front of the warriors, that’s Jason’s fantasy, you know the white guy from LA has sex with this beautiful woman, it’s very gratuitous, and it’s in front of the whole tribe. It’s a fantasy that we’ve seen in pop culture cinema.”

“People will get 2/3 through the game or halfway through the game, and they’ll think that they know and they stop listening. And it’s like no no no no no, we’re gonna take that and totally loop it back on what you think it is, and we’re agreeing with the critique!”

I was totally one of those people I'm glad I finished the game.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editoria ... ature-ofth

Thanks. That scene, I did think "that musta been pretty humiliating for those warriors for me to waltz in here and tap dat ass so easily", but then my mind quickly jumped to "Not even Rockstar North would be brave enough to do this scene the other way about" (i.e., a guy warrior gives a female main-character a bottle full of strong hallucinogenic drugs then when she wakes up he's banging her.).
It appears I didn't notice a few things myself though, since I missed the "loop back on what you think it is" thing, and did just end up thinking it was all a bit stereotyped and Hollywood-ish (since like you said, it's not a new thing for games, just that FC3 ups the ante with the more explicit content)...

[south carmain]

so I just finished ME3 though I didn't get the ending I wanted.

turns out if you shoot the kid then the cycle repeats itself

[Tuffty]

^ Honestly, that would have been the ending I would have picked.

It's truer to my playthrough of 1-3 because Shepherd never gave in and achieved the impossible every time despite being told otherwise. He also fought for diversity and celebrated it, knowing that the galaxy is stronger for it. So hell yeh we'd go down with a fight. We would die, but we would die knowing our efforts would be carried on to another generation and they can maybe break the cycle.

Except I didn't even have that choice when I played it. It's just a bad ending all round, though I still think Fallout 3's is the worst.

[Who Really Cares?]

Yeah that was added via the extended cut

Probably cause Bioware knew everyone shot at the little shit already.

Bioware dropped the ball big time with the endings and

Destroy

would always be my pick because it does what Shep always set out to do.

[Yokosuka Martian]

PRAAAAISE IT