Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby Riku Rose » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:50 pm

The comments show that SIII is not in any kind of development. Sega aren't going to put up the money for it as the series has done nothing but loose them money so it makes more sense to put their money into stuff like Sonic. People can bitch about Sonic all they like but at the end of the day they make money on it which is more then they've ever made with Shenmue. No other publisher is going to touch the series with a pole as it will take a lot of money and there is no proof they will get a return on that. It's a series that sold about 1M games 15 years ago. I'd be surprised if half the people who played Shenmue in 1999 noticed if a third one came out as people move on. 2 of my brothers played the series back then and neither of them even own a games console any more since they've lost interest in gaming altogether. People can say Shenmue was ahead of it's time but a game like Shenmue would sell even less in the market today which is dominated by FPS's and high action games, just look at how the Yakuza series sells. Even if SIII did come the fact development hasn't started means we would have to wait a few years before we even got an announcement.

The main hope for any future with the series is a HD version of the first two games. It would be a lot cheaper and it's stupid to make the third entry in a game when no one new to the series can play the first two games anymore. Sony have come out and said that they're looking to discuss it with SEGA when they mentioned their big game list. Now we just have to wait and see if the two companies can come to an agreement on funding the game between them. Even if this happens it will take time to make so an announcement will be quite far away since when Adam Boyes said all that stuff they hadn't even started talking to SEGA about it. People expecting anything at E3 really need to look at the facts that it's far to soon for anything to have been made into a show-able state.

Personally I think the HD re-releases wouldn't sell well and do nothing but make SEGA think the series is even more of a financial failure then it already was. Still I think the only chance of anything Shenmue related being released is through this Sony building the list thing. If that Team Yu or whatever is targeting anyone it should be the people at Sony in charge of this. Keep the pressure on them and constantly keep Shenmue top of their most demanded games. I honestly don't see the point in targeting SEGA as they don't have any people in the right places on social media sites like Sony do who will take notice. SEGA's social media just seems to be handled by people who are there to give you PR bullshit and nothing else.

Rose Out.

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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby Quiksylver » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:01 pm

Hey guys check out Eurogamer. Suzuki apparently looking into kickstarter for future projects.
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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby Quiksylver » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:17 pm

Surely, with the right strategy it would be hard to fail. Look at the Walking Dead episodes...lets face it, gameplay isnt the best but story is good. Shenmue has all of it, gameplay and story.

So, HD remakes with slight updates for the dialogue to speed it up a bit. Release 1 episode at a time for say £9.99-14.99 each. 3 Months later release the next (maybe even turn episode 2 into a game).By the end of that year we would have moved into brand new material aka shenmue 3 or episode 6? Rinse and repeat. Its gotta be a winner, surely. If walking bloody dead can succeed then this will smash it?

Yu wouldnt even need to change the engine or make it true next gen for shen3 onwards, just better textures and better voice acting for todays market.

Oh what do I know about good games and stories? Its all about bloody Call of Duty for youngsters these days. Such a shame.
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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby Riku Rose » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:28 pm

The Walking Dead is one of the biggest properties at the moment with the TV show and comics being some of the most popular in their respective mediums, that's partly why the game sells so well. I like Shenmue but the story in the game is far from good. The writing in the game is nowhere near as good as something like The Walking Dead game which is seen by most as one of the best written games ever and something that people will say inspired games in years to come. People are going to be more interested in a game from a known brand about zombies like The Walking Dead than Shenmue the weird Japanese game where you open draws for 3 hours and then maybe get into a fight. The idea that Shenmue could 'smash' The Walking Dead is ridicules.

Also they're cheap to make and are only 2 hour episodes made by groups of about 30-40 people. Shenmue is much more open and would require a lot more work to make then something like Walking Dead pushing up the costs. Episodic games work for cheaply made games but something like Shenmue would have to be a retail game unless we got a different type of game entirely.

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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby Messiah » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:52 am

The plot in shenmue is average but way the story is told is amazing! Also, loads of crap games are coming out and flopping, there's no reason why the biggest growing industry ever can't support a game with an already powerful fanbase. No reason why shenmue iii should be some next gen ultra high budget game like it used to be. People are happy to see the story finish on ps3/360 (which is the largest gaming community of course and will be for another 5 years) yu needs to kickstarter and stop whining about if sega will let him do stuff. Kickstarter will also shut all the fans up, it'll directly prove whether it's worth making. The end.
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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby *Kenshin Himura* » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:36 am

Someone should of been direct at the Q&A and said "So you're looking for a publisher eh"?

Or maybe like "Has Sony tried to work with your budget"? I think these questions would of made Yu-San give a more in depth answer, than just saying of course I still want to make Shenmue. Of course he does! Look how he lights up when he talks about the game. At the end of the day its all about business.

He seemed a little tensed or too laid-back at GDC presentation, I guess maybe the audience wasn't feeling it? Then again he needed more time to explain the story. (As I stress.) Also, that audience should of been filled with die hard Shenmue Fans that lived through that era of witnessing the greatness of the game back in 1999.

I don't think the world of gaming will accept Shenmue 3.. This is a different era of gaming.. Shenmue is too complex and people don't like complex nowadays.


Yu-San wants to make Shenmue more in-depth than we think, all of those chapters.... It's bigger than getting revenge on Lan Di alone. The exploration of the asian culture of martial arts and treasure as well as the enviorments. Yu is trying to follow the original plan by making it like this not trying to water it down by going with a cheap publisher and put out a shortened version of Shenmue. Im sure of it. He needs a big budget. Thats what he wants.
Last edited by *Kenshin Himura* on Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby MiTT3NZ » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:49 am

Hmm... A lot of misconceptions about that crowd. About half of em were all talking about Shenmue like fans, either hyped about a potential announcement or bein more realistic about it. A quarter were developers who genuinely wanted an insight into the development process of such a classic game, and the remaining quarter were the press (predominantly Japanese)

Guaranteed though, it was probably the most packed-out room throughout the entire GDC. In terms of arse-to-seat ratio, it probably bossed the awards ceremonies too. The only real shame is that the only peeps who weren't scared of stepping up to the mic we're asking questions that a number of peeps on the Dojo could've probably answered.

Oh, and I'm quite sure that Cerny is Slenderman in disguise.

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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby *Kenshin Himura* » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:03 am

I can't wait for TGS. Hopefully he'll be there and I'll make sure to be there to chat with him.

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Shenmue 1/Shenmue 2

Postby Icehotman2004 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:44 am

Yeah, good for Suzuki to explain his two masterpieces how he made both Shens after all both Shenmues are first to contain QTE even ability to speak to people :D Including working In a job within a video game very realistic yet with very few ground breaking graphics In both Shenmues very unique games more games should be as Shenmue 2 In that people work In a job even gambling
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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby ys » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:24 am

Riku Rose wrote: I like Shenmue but the story in the game is far from good. The writing in the game is nowhere near as good as something like The Walking Dead game which is seen by most as one of the best written games ever and something that people will say inspired games in years to come.

The Walking Dead was indeed amazing but I don't know if we can fully compare. Shenmue is more in the vein of classic martial arts movies and less about "soap like" episodes focused on intrigues within a group.
Instead it's more about being immersed in the world, freedom and being able to interact with the world so the game needs to adjust story/pacing according to that. The Walking Dead on the other hand is only about the writing so they better get that right.
Though now that I think of it, oddly enough there were several parts in The Walking Dead that were very predictable while I often didn't have a clue at all what would come next in Shenmue. So it isn't all bad maybe ;)

We're also comparing different eras here. Game developers have had a chance to progress since then and even if Yu had movie people help out back then, he could likely hire more specialized writers these days.
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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby Gangsta Ren » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:46 am

Riku Rose wrote: The Walking Dead is one of the biggest properties at the moment with the TV show and comics being some of the most popular in their respective mediums, that's partly why the game sells so well. I like Shenmue but the story in the game is far from good. The writing in the game is nowhere near as good as something like The Walking Dead game which is seen by most as one of the best written games ever and something that people will say inspired games in years to come. People are going to be more interested in a game from a known brand about zombies like The Walking Dead than Shenmue the weird Japanese game where you open draws for 3 hours and then maybe get into a fight. The idea that Shenmue could 'smash' The Walking Dead is ridicules.

Also they're cheap to make and are only 2 hour episodes made by groups of about 30-40 people. Shenmue is much more open and would require a lot more work to make then something like Walking Dead pushing up the costs. Episodic games work for cheaply made games but something like Shenmue would have to be a retail game unless we got a different type of game entirely.



I agree Shenmue 3 wouldn't smash the Walking Dead, it's an entertainment juggernaut . I've played the first season and the 2 existing chapters of Season 2. It won't inspire ANY developers for years to come. I like the game, but please, it's barely a game. The parts I love the most about it are the parts that Ape Shenmue. The "drawer opening " you maligned do much looks directly copied in the Walking dead , and I love it. Tactile interaction with the 3D environment. The QTE are obvious Shenmue rip offs. Where the game is inferior is any portion that involves realtime action. The shooting mechanic is horrendous . It's unbelievably bad and poorly implemented. They had two years to get this to a professional level. The shooting is sub-par to flash games. It would be more of a "game " if it had Free Battle system where you kill hordes of Zombies. Your choices also turn out to be irrelevant, as they don't affect the end of the game. All it affects is who on the cast lives or dies. How about multiple branching endings next time. I could care less who on the cast lives or dies. As for the writing, meh, I've seen better. That new villain is too cartoonish , too much like the comic book version of the Governor. They are basically out of ideas and keep copying and pasting the same character types to different people. Nutty villain, unfaithful wife who gets knocked up by someone else, human marauders, same old sh--.

As for Messiah's idea about kick starter, that would never work. Yu Suzuki already thought of that. Even popular games like Mighty Number 9 only garnered $3.4 million. Shenmue would probably need $30 million or more. Never gonna happen.
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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby elfshadowreaper » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:16 am

I think we'd be surprised how much a Shenmue kickstarter would get. But I don't think Sega would ever do that because it's a multi-million dollar company and for them to pander for money to make a game they have the money to make isn't good PR. I think our best option is to kickstart for the rights to Shenmue and if Yu can't find a publisher he can at least contract a manga. And it pains me to say that because I want to play Shenmue. But I want to know the complete story more than my desire to actually play it.

And doing the real world things like opening drawers and pickup up random bowls was one of the things that attracted me to Shenmue. It sounds lame but I thought "you mean I can open cabinets and knock on random people's doors.....awesome!"

Unfortunately we have a large generation of junior dudebros out there who have no taste for video games that don't involve a first person view, a hail of bullets and supports 32 person multiplayer. And most recently we've added a demographic who likes growing farms on facebook. Shenmue will have a hard time competing with the ease of developing those and the margin they make.
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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby shenhaZ » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:19 am

You forget about Kingdom Come case. Publisher + kickstarter.
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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby Riku Rose » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:21 am

Messiah wrote: The plot in shenmue is average but way the story is told is amazing! Also, loads of crap games are coming out and flopping, there's no reason why the biggest growing industry ever can't support a game with an already powerful fanbase. No reason why shenmue iii should be some next gen ultra high budget game like it used to be. People are happy to see the story finish on ps3/360 (which is the largest gaming community of course and will be for another 5 years) yu needs to kickstarter and stop whining about if sega will let him do stuff. Kickstarter will also shut all the fans up, it'll directly prove whether it's worth making. The end.


Firstly Yu would need permission from Sega to do the kickstarter which he will not get. As someone said it would do nothing but make Sega look bad. Also I really can't see it making enough through a Kickstarter type system, To my knowledge nothing has ever got more then $10M on it and a full Shenmue game would cost a lot more.

ys wrote:The Walking Dead was indeed amazing but I don't know if we can fully compare.


Yeah I was pretty much just trying to say that The Walking Dead is more sellable game to the public than Shenmue. I agree they're totally different and was mainly pointing out that you couldn't sell Shenmue in the same fashion that Walking Dead is sold.

Gangsta Ren wrote:I agree Shenmue 3 wouldn't smash the Walking Dead, it's an entertainment juggernaut . I've played the first season and the 2 existing chapters of Season 2. It won't inspire ANY developers for years to come. I like the game, but please, it's barely a game. The parts I love the most about it are the parts that Ape Shenmue. The "drawer opening " you maligned do much looks directly copied in the Walking dead , and I love it. Tactile interaction with the 3D environment. The QTE are obvious Shenmue rip offs. Where the game is inferior is any portion that involves realtime action. The shooting mechanic is horrendous . It's unbelievably bad and poorly implemented. They had two years to get this to a professional level. The shooting is sub-par to flash games. It would be more of a "game " if it had Free Battle system where you kill hordes of Zombies. Your choices also turn out to be irrelevant, as they don't affect the end of the game. All it affects is who on the cast lives or dies. How about multiple branching endings next time. I could care less who on the cast lives or dies. As for the writing, meh, I've seen better. That new villain is too cartoonish , too much like the comic book version of the Governor. They are basically out of ideas and keep copying and pasting the same character types to different people. Nutty villain, unfaithful wife who gets knocked up by someone else, human marauders, same old sh--.


A game that won many game of the year awards and is nothing but praised by most will inspire other games. Developers are always looking at successful games to see what they're doing right so in that sense it will be inspiring them.

As for the barely a game stuff if you're getting picking you could pretty much say Shenmue is a point and click game with a handful of Virtua Fighter fights and the odd QTE. A definition of a game is a video image that you control through your inputs so yeah it's a game.

Anyone can play the Walking Dead, understand how to play it and never get bored. Sure you open draws but you do it for 1 minute and then before you know it something else exciting is happening. No moment is as long as say when you're trying to find the key to get under the Dojo. That's why Shenmue will never be able to be sold to the mainstream audience, most people don't enjoy those kind of mechanics it's only the niche audience who do. I disagree with most of what you said about the Walking Dead but at the end of the day it does the most important thing a game needs to do: make money. Sadly that's all that matters.


elfshadowreaper wrote:Unfortunately we have a large generation of junior dudebros out there who have no taste for video games that don't involve a first person view, a hail of bullets and supports 32 person multiplayer. And most recently we've added a demographic who likes growing farms on facebook. Shenmue will have a hard time competing with the ease of developing those and the margin they make.


The people who like playing farm stuff on Facebook are people who never bought games before and I doubt will in the future. But the 'dudebros' is just because people learn about games in a different way now. In the old days to learn about games you would get a magazine and see how good 20 odd games where in a single issue. In this day and age most people see an ad on TV type the name of the game they just see into google and see is it's good through that, which leads to the games with the biggest advertising budgets winning their money. I have friends now who mainly stick to CoD or Fifa who used to play obscure games back in the N64/PS1 games as they would get a gaming mag and see it review highly. Now there's no need for magazines in the digital age when they can get a review in 2 seconds and totally ignore all the high scoring games that don't have ads on TV.

For Shenmue to succeed it would need a big advertising presence which is unrealistic to think it would ever get.
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Re: Shenmue Postmortem Discussion

Postby *Kenshin Himura* » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:48 am

Yeah kick starter won't cut it to be honest.. At most a kickstarter could get us a HD Remake possibly. Yu-San needs at least 60-90 million dollars for the full development of Shenmue III.
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