Xbox One

[Sonikku]

I'm very happy Sony's latest firmware update allowed apps to be launched by voice, something X1 users have enjoyed since day 1. So in that regard, I'm hoping to see more camera development as well.

But you know what, I wouldn't put it past Microsoft at all to include a future X1 model with faster VRAM or some such shit. I have a strong sense it'll happen before this generation is done. It's another reason I'm in no hurry to jump in.

To what end? Changing hardware specs mid cycle is very rare. Do Devs just focus on making the high vram variant look kick ass, or do they throw in additional expense to optimize their games twice on the same system?

[Riku Rose]

For starters, that have that "fuck up" lurking over them, having fuck ups (especially before launch) isnt good for business, first shot in the foot. Also, they should have known not to force the consumer to buy kinect in order to own their console and charged an extra $100 for it (second shot in the foot), unlike their competition who gave their consumers the option, and guess what? they are on the verge of being blown out by that competition. Atleast they fixed it now and didnt wait any longer. MS seems slow to be catching on, they wanna see how much they can get away with before consumers stop responding and force them to make a change (third shot in the foot). Instead of making the right choices from the beginning, just shows you what kind of company Microsoft really is. Obviously everyone is in the business to make money, just some care more about their consumers than others, microsoft taking the latter end of that.

The PS4 is selling better but the Xbox One is hardly doing bad. Last I see it was selling better then the 360 did in the same amount of time and no one would call the 360 a failure. It is possible for two consoles to be doing well at the same time. The only system that seems to be selling badly at the moment is the Wii U.

You said they keep shooting themselves in the foot as if they've carried on doing it. I honestly can't see that they've done much wrong since the E3 fuck up and I'd say they have done well to recover. It's not like Phil Spencer can walk in day one and change everything on his first day, it's a billion dollar company and changing things takes time. The DRM reversal was hardly easy, people still had to update their console day one to make sure the change happened. You say they're still hurting from it but no one gives a flying fuck any more, everyone stopped being angry about it the moment they changed the DRM policy. The main reason Sony has a lead IMO is the price difference and now Microsoft has lowered it. My brother who had a 360 over a PS3 bought a PS4 as it meant he could play FIFA cheaper. The majority of people who buy consoles and play games don't care about companies old policy's, resolutions or frame rates.

To be fair Axm the moment Sony decided to not put their camera in the box any chance of them being used died. No developer was going to devote time to developing features for a game only half the people playing would actually be able to use.

[AnimeGamer183]

If you think people forgot about that already, you are in your own world. I would say that fuck up had everything to do with the consoles slow start. I mean even I admitted that the Xbox One had a better launch line up, but the PS4 still came out on top. Microsoft hasnt sat well with me since RROD and 30% fail rate started with the 360 and the way they handled that. They have a loyal (moronic) fan base, i'll give them that, just seems like MS is on the brink with their last 2 consoles, like how long can they keep it up now? They are still the new guy on the scene and Im not convinced they have a firm footing even now. All those mistakes (and there have been big ones) will eventually come back around on them. Seems these mistakes, along side trying to keep their foot in the door, is slowly piling up and if it happens enough times it could cost them big.

[Kenny]

I'll probably play the XBOX One and PS4 for the very first time at this year's E3.

I still don't give a flying fuck about either one of them. I think I only care about "inFAMOUS Second Son" and "Killzone Shadow Fall" for the PS4 and "Quantum Break" and "Fable Legends" for XBOX One, but I can really do without them atm. The next game I'm really anticipating is just MGS5:TPP and that's coming out for the PS3.

[Mitsuzuki]

To what end? Changing hardware specs mid cycle is very rare. Do Devs just focus on making the high vram variant look kick ass, or do they throw in additional expense to optimize their games twice on the same system?

I'm just talking out of my ass here so I don't know. I just remember being an early adopter with the original 360. Wi-Fi? Nope, buy a $100 adapter to get that. HDMI? Sorry, not on this model. Component will be fine for you. HD-DVD? Sorry, another external attachment that became defunct anyway. I'm really just basing my thought on the history of hardware revisions like this plus the backtracking MS has already done with their initial X1 policies.

Even though the average gamer probably doesn't see much or any of a graphical difference in mulitplats, it's widely considered that the PS4 is a more powerful piece of hardware. I have a feeling this will be something MS will eventually address with future hardware updates.

[Axm]

Mitz, you looking to do some development?

This is pretty huge for MS. Many people have wanted a Kinect-less X1 since the beginning and now they're getting it, at a competitive price to the PS4.

I could see myself eventually getting an X1, but I'm happy to wait it out for a slim/cheaper version.

No, I just wanna rip one of the models from the Arkham games, rig the face, and use Kinect with FaceShift so I can spend all day saying "I'm Batman". Then use it to chat to people on Skype. Might even model a Bin Laden head and trick Bush Jr. into thinking he's still alive. If pulled off, that'd possibly be the most perfect prank in history. I'm takin it to Kickstarter!

[Axm]

To be fair Axm the moment Sony decided to not put their camera in the box any chance of them being used died. No developer was going to devote time to developing features for a game only half the people playing would actually be able to use.

Hmmm possibly, ive thought about that many times myself, however lets say "X" 3rd party dev is making the next shooter or racer with head tracking. Xbox has the forced install base while PS4 doesnt, however based on existing strong sales of the PS Camera(fact) said dev decides why not develop this feature as a key feature of the game. Lets just say this head tracking is fuckin awesome and works very well..
Well why not include it on PS4 if its already being implimented in the Xbox version?

Now fast forward to our current situation. "X" 3rd party has to bank hard on the possibility people will continue to buy the Kinect/PS Cam to spend the time developing on its vision. Something that may revolutionize the FPS genre.. but now they wont because they really cant count on the Xbox user base if the PS4's falls through.

Too bad.. maybe we'll have to wait another 5 years for the tech to be truely taken advantage of.
This policy to include the Kinect was actually something I very much agreed with. If Sony had force fed the Camera like MS did I would have been all for it.

[ShenmueTree]

I've seen people say that some power was being used for the Kinect at all times which could now make games run the same as they do on PS4 (1080p/60fps).

Those people don't know what they're talking about.

Should have dropped it to 350 if they wanted to make a splash. 400 just get's you inferior hardware, though, that might be an oxymoron for this console generation.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014- ... ance-boost

According to Microsoft themselves 10% of the XBoxOne's power is reserved specifically for the Kinect and they're in talks to remove that threshold.

[Raithos]

I don't think they should have removed it, as others said that means it will be used less by developers in the future. Its the same thing that bummed me out when I found out the PS4 camera was almost included as well. If everyone had one, developers would be more inclined to experiment and try different things. But without every unit having a camera/Kinect the chances of failure increase, so they won't take as big of a risk with future software. But it will get more people to buy it since its cheaper now, and that's what they want. I already know people who plan on buying one after the price drop.

As far as removing the Kinect and it increasing the X1's power, that's hilarious. You know the Kinect can be used on PC for several different applications right? Including games and various hacks to use it in existing titles. The software used for Kinect has literally zero impact on the processing power or VRAM capabilities of the console or a PC. If it did, hooking up a PS4 Camera would make your PS4 less powerful.

But I have to say that is some GREAT PR work right there. The average user knows nothing about the technology they buy and use. Most people can't even tell you the speed of the CPU in their phone, or what version of IE/Mozilla/Chrome they use everyday. So if you tell that group "Removing this camera will increase the power of your game console" they will believe it. And Microsoft knows that. Kudos to them!

[Riku Rose]

^They're also talking about removing the power that the console reserves for having the menus running at all times. That may be more bullshit for all I know though.

If you think people forgot about that already, you are in your own world. I would say that fuck up had everything to do with the consoles slow start. I mean even I admitted that the Xbox One had a better launch line up, but the PS4 still came out on top. Microsoft hasnt sat well with me since RROD and 30% fail rate started with the 360 and the way they handled that. They have a loyal (moronic) fan base, i'll give them that, just seems like MS is on the brink with their last 2 consoles, like how long can they keep it up now? They are still the new guy on the scene and Im not convinced they have a firm footing even now. All those mistakes (and there have been big ones) will eventually come back around on them. Seems these mistakes, along side trying to keep their foot in the door, is slowly piling up and if it happens enough times it could cost them big.

Seriously outside of people who following gaming no one gives a fuck. The internet comments sections and message boards can make things seem like the end of the world but your average joe doesn't follow or care about them. People who really care about games are a tiny amount of the people who actually buy them. That's why people are more willing to go with a cheaper console over exclusives.

Yet again, yes the PS4 sold better but the Xbox One is selling really well. I'd say amazingly considering it came out within 2 weeks of the PS4. During the last generation people had long gaps between each console yet it's still outselling how those did.

They're hardly on the brink. Yeah they had the RROD last time but just like they did with the DRM issue they did the best they could in a shitty situation. Peter Moore was out and they gave everyone a 3 year warranty which cost them a lot of money. You've got to hand it to Microsoft with how they handle fire control. Luckily Phil Spencer seems more in touch then people like Don Mattrick so I'm sure as long as his in charge we won't get anything anywhere near as bad as those two things.

You really shouldn't be labelling people as moronic when you had a tendency to say ridiculous things or a regular basis.

[AnimeGamer183]

I dont agree with the average joe thing. Nerds are rampant everywhere now, ya know the whole thing where its cool to be a nerd now a days? Yeah, there are alot more people following gaming than ever before and alot more people are in the know now a days, if one scandalous situation happens, everyone knows about it. Ever notice the things "trending" on FB or other sites? I rest my case, the exposure is definitely there. Hell even as I look at it now, the whole new batman costume and batmobile is at the top of facebook, nerd stuff is everywhere now a days. It does feel weird though, cause we have been this way the entire time and it kind of feels like these noobs are just riding out coat tails of nerdyness lol

[Raithos]

^They're also talking about removing the power that the console reserves for having the menus running at all times. That may be more bullshit for all I know though.

There could be some truth to that idk, depends on how much RAM they have set aside for the OS. I know the few times I've used the X1 at my brother's that dashboard is ridiculously responsive. Switching between games, video and whatever else was awesome. A huge leap forward from the 360 days. I wonder how much it would slow that down if any.

[MiTT3NZ]

I'm with Riku on this. A lot of people either don't know or couldn't give a shit. There are still a lot of gamers/geeks/nerds/whatever that are buying Xbox One, and a lot who have tipped their hat to MS for essentially strengthening their relationship with gamers by not only acknowledging consumer's conscerns, but allowing their feedback to have a direct impact on their way forward as a company.

The funny thing is that the "evil corporate machines" of the industry are the ones bringing in the changes, halting the use of features, sales tactics, etc. that the gaming community has been vocal about. These guys deserve props for what they're doing instead of being constantly derided. It's like the whole thing surrounding that Fez guy. Wouldn't stop moaning about MS' fees on XBLA, they respond by devising a system that's more financially friendly to developers (specifically indies), and then says nothing.

I always felt that, as a nation, we are fucking brilliant at moaning. It's what we do best. However, the crowd that AG belongs to (and this is just an observation) are never happy. Never want to praise a big, western corporation, coz it's seemingly "in" to hate on them. They put good ol' English moaning to shame. On the flip side though, without this angry mob of anonymous screen starers, would these changes have been made? It's a double-edged sword, no doubt, but to me it's the angry gamers that come off as the bellends. The same types calling for a revolution on Facebook. Modern day internet hippies who can and will protest about anything and everything coz it's easier to press a button than stay camped out in the rain with a picket sign for a few days.

Going back to the Average Joe thing though, nobody cares. Where I work, they give away PS4s pretty reularly as an incentive, and everyone buzzes about the idea of getting a free PS4. Very few who win though actually keep it. If it comes with a game they might, but most of the time they either sell it someone there for cash or sell it just so they can buy... (drumroll please...) an Xbox One.

What's even funnier is, in the discussions I've had with non-forum dwellers about the current gen consoles, usually the thing that comes up is the price. It usually comes down to this... PS4's cheaper, has Shadowfall, and everyone loves the controller. But... people would rather buy an Xbox One. Why? Coz it has Kinect. You pay more, but you get more. Plus, people prefer Xbox Live. They know you have to pay for it, don't know about the free games thing, and reckon Sony's online multiplayer system is free.

Microsoft are doing fine, and they're making some commendable decisions (although I would've loved to have seen the Xbox One released as intended, personally) Yes, the PS4's outselling the One atm, but so what? It doesn't mean that sales are bad, it just means that Sony's are better. The console is cheaper. And on top of this, didn't the PS3 end up outselling the 360 in the end? As far as the console war goes in terms of sales, it's a marathon, not a sprint, and these changes that MS are making put them in good stead. Just look at us winning the title recently. Liverpool went on an incredible run, blitzing anyone who stood in their way, but we remained consistent and went onto win it.

At the end of the day though, it's good news for people who can't afford an Xbox One, don't want the Kinect, and people who want to buy the Kinect separately. If none of it applies to you, then so fucking what? Enjoy playing the console you do "care" about, or run the risk of becoming a... (dare I say the word of ultimate cringe)..... hater.

[AnimeGamer183]

To be fair, I may not get either console if enough games come out on PC like the rumors have been indicating. Dear god, what if I only owned the Wii-U out of all the next gen consoles? Some how, thats the only console I know for sure i will buy in the future. lol

[ShenmueTree]

^They're also talking about removing the power that the console reserves for having the menus running at all times. That may be more bullshit for all I know though.


Seriously outside of people who following gaming no one gives a fuck. The internet comments sections and message boards can make things seem like the end of the world but your average joe doesn't follow or care about them. People who really care about games are a tiny amount of the people who actually buy them. That's why people are more willing to go with a cheaper console over exclusives.

Wrong. My mother and he sisters knows fuck all about gaming except Facebook Scrabble clones, yet they knew about the Xbox One DRM shit and told their family and friends that had children to not bother with one of those. Word of mouth is much stronger than you would believe, and even people you couldn't even count as casuals knew about the Microsoft fuckups.