Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Atlantean » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:51 am

Hi everyone. A lot has been said about the announcement and it's so overwhelmingly positive and filled with excitement, I feel like I'm a terrible person for what I'm about to say.
Most of you here don't remember me, and those that do know I've rarely spoke about the game and my relationship with it. But I guarantee you it means as much to me as it does to so many of you.
But that video on the kickstarter page... that video fails to excite me.
They go through the trouble of making 3D models to show a scene we've already played, that doesn't exactly represent the overall spirit of the game. And the voice acting was also terrible, making the scene even... stranger and awkward. If I didn't know the originals, I'd be asking "Okay... what is so special about this?".
The characters, to me, look tragically different from the original artwork I loved, and while I understant it's not final, I wonder why not just use the old models and upscale them? When I look at then, it's like I'm looking at an only somewhat competent fanart. It's the same reaction I got when I saw the Shenmue Online FMVs and cringed at Ryo's face, only amplified 3 times.

EDIT
Lots of people seem to be getting the impression I'm assuming the images we saw are representative of the final game. I don't believe in that the slightest bit.
But I do think that the recreated scene was useless. Sure, the scenery looked great, but the scene added nothing new, and the models were disappointing just because they don't look at all like the original characters. So why even do it? The video could have been better with a much simpler scene. I don't even think showing off any sort of graphics is necessary in this stage. I think it's a lot more important to answer the questions I raise later in this post.


I'm sure Shenmue is many different things to each one of us, but I believe we can mostly agree that it's a story about morality, cycles of revenge, friendship and the many layers of people. With a dash of fantasy as well, sure.
So what I would have preffered to see, was a video focused on that - on Yu breaking down the essentials and giving hints on why you should look into this game - you know, other arguments than "People keep asking me about it and notice how many are losing their sh*t at this conference.". You wouldn't need that Ryo/Shenhua scene, with the pretty scenery and that robotic voice acting, you'd only need artwork, a confident assertion of what the core values are, and a tease on the story's direction.

Instead, we get an announcement that for some reason values scrolls that give you moves you can instantly use in battle without practicing, which you can win in mini-games. I mean, I love me some move scrolls and fun mini-games, but... this doesn't tell me "Okay, he can do this. He's realistic.". I know he's competent (it's frickin' Yu Suzuki), but this doesn't even touch major concerns like how you're going to downscale what was a budget-hungry, complex project, to a limited-funding, and seemingly smaller developer team one.
We can certainly agree that the next chapter probably won't take you to a place like Kowloon - and maybe won't have as many characters, maybe won't have as many little details to mind over, and maybe it won't be as long as Shenmue II.
But the games we've fell in love with were extremely ambitious, and I'd love to see what other ambitions the next game has, even if they're smaller. Afterall, it's no longer incredibly hard making a Shenmue I in this day and age - but conceptually, it's still a huge undertaking, and I have no idea how Yu is tackling that.

My point is, the video did nothing to calm the many questions I have over putting a game like this on that platform. What makes Yu believe that he can deliver the kind of experience he envisioned through Kickstarter? I mean, you should at least tell us that, that's how you sell a project on this kind of platform.

Anyway, that's that. Am I missing something? Am I totally wrong and a terrible person? If would kindly share your thoughts, I'll listen - I want to be wrong about this.
Last edited by Atlantean on Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Atlantean has received a thanks from: FlagshipFighter
User avatar
Atlantean
"After Burner...Great!"
"After Burner...Great!"
 
Joined: July 2003
Location: Portugal/Switzerland
Steam: Lantean
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Steam Wallet Drain Game

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby shredingskin » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:57 am

Yes, they should redo the video, giving a little more hype, put some emulated 1080p Shenmue footage, tell people what gameplay is like, some random guys calling it the most revolutionary game ever made, some fast montage of everything the game is, whatever it takes.

A lot of people know Shenmue only by it's fans, even if someone was interested in backing it, the only thing they saw were some pre-alpha models walking, bad voice acting, weird animations, and Suzuki saying stuff that even fans don't know what is he actually thinking for the game.
User avatar
shredingskin
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: March 2012
Location: Argentina
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Some indie games.

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Axm » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:03 am

Hey Atlantean, good to see you again and welcome back.
To answer your question, yes, you are a terrible person. Really really bad.. just horrible..
;)
It's just some very rough throw togethers man. Dont look too far into it. I dont imagine this is anywhere near the final product. It's like the pre-Alpha of an Alpha. Thats like 3 Alpha's.
Also Sony is helping YS net and the other independent studio's working on this. We will get a polished product and the different gameplay features will be well known to us when its ready. Suzuki wants alot of community feedback to determine what works with us and what doesn't. So stick around and give your input to the project when the time comes. Start by giving anything you can to the kickstarter.

Axm has received a thanks from: FlagshipFighter
User avatar
Axm
#SaveShenmueHD
News Poster
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Fukuoka, Japan

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Malik Ishtahl » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:07 am

I think your views and concerns are valid, but they just need to be put in perspective a little bit. The "trailer" that we got was purely conceptual, I doubt the development team had much to work with and even with "low" standards it looks pretty good. The voice acting was atrocious, and even though Ryu's Japanese seiyuu has signed on, they went with some (weird) English voices. That being said, another thing to remember is that Sony is helping Yu Suzuki develop this game. So whether that's more programmers or more money, it's definitely a good thing. I think the whole point of the campaign was to gauge where fan interest truly is,

Also what a lot don't realize is that the 70 million was spent on development for the whole series, not just Shenmue 1. So it's really just a matter of transitioning it and updating various mechanics.
I'll get this space filled later when I feel like it.
User avatar
Malik Ishtahl
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: April 2003
XBL: Dre4life90
Favorite title: Shenmue II
Currently playing: GTA Online

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby shredingskin » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:08 am

To be honest, looking at high res pictures, ryo model doesn't look as bad as I was thinking it to be.

Still there's this glossines that new games have that I don't like, but also seems really bumped for some reason, and he's a little bit too white compared to the old one.

People were specting something like SO trailer, and I think it's just a placeholder to show something.
User avatar
shredingskin
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: March 2012
Location: Argentina
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Some indie games.

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby BayStone » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:11 am

Hmm, I wouldn't spend too much time thinking about the visuals at this point. :) They look like crap currently, yeah, but the video they used could just be some test UE4 footage or some such... maybe evaluation stuff or something, who knows.

Most games look like total crap for 90% of development time anyway. :D

As far as budget thing goes, I think it's still not that big of a deal. :???: I would venture a guess that the huge budget of SI and II was spend researching, building, and re-re-building stuff for both Saturn and DC. This time around, I would guess, they're using tried and true methods, knowledge and technology which should cut down costs considerably. No need to invent the wheel.

Of course building (as in assets, people, etc.) the game is still going to be costly, but how costly is hard to say at this point.

Look at games like Dreamfall Chapters for example. Not too far off of original Shenmue, but with a fraction of its budget. Of course it all depends on if we want something like that or something like GTA or Uncharted. :)
User avatar
BayStone
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Finland
Favorite title: Shenmue II

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby NeoShredder » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:13 am

The video did say "work in progress", and with the want of funding, I remain optimistic ....I mean, if what can be done on unreal engine is any indication, such as the various "apartment" renders and other AAA games, I'm fairly confident. I mean, we've seen "next gen" Ryo in Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing already.

I think this represents a 'proof of concept'....has anyone asked if Corey Marshall is back on board?
Image

http://www.30onthe3rd.com
User avatar
NeoShredder
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: April 2005
Location: England, UK
PSN: NeoShredder5
Favorite title: Shenmue II

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby shredingskin » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:18 am

BayStone wrote: Hmm, I wouldn't spend too much time thinking about the visuals at this point. :)


I'm not worried about the game graphics, I'm worried that the video will alienate some people from backing.
User avatar
shredingskin
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: March 2012
Location: Argentina
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Some indie games.

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Atlantean » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:30 am

Thank you all for the kind answers, and cheers Axm, it's nice to see some familiar "faces" around here.

I'd like to clear something up - it's not so much the quality of the graphics that bothers me, it's how the characters look significantly different from the original artwork. I wouldn't care if the graphics looked like Nintendo DS sprites - I think we all know what you see in the beginning isn't always what you get in the end. Even more true when we consider this is E3 season - every year there's a controversy over that. I look at all non-final trailers as place holders, even if development is far along.

Still, I guess even my "doesn't look like the originals" complaint will eventually be adressed. I just wish the trailer was a bit closer to the source material...
User avatar
Atlantean
"After Burner...Great!"
"After Burner...Great!"
 
Joined: July 2003
Location: Portugal/Switzerland
Steam: Lantean
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Steam Wallet Drain Game

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby spinksy » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:34 am

At a guess I'd say most of what we've seen has probably been rushed to say the least - I'd agree about the character model for Ryo but just look at how good he looks in the sonic racing games.
User avatar
spinksy
Master of the Three Blades
Master of the Three Blades
 
Joined: May 2013
XBL: spinksy777
Favorite title: Shenmue II
Currently playing: Shenmue, skies of Arcadia

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby johnvivant » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:42 am

treat that footage as a placeholder only, its just about having something to show. i actually think it looks ok apart from the Ryo model and the voice. the environment looks gorgeous.

if they can use the proper shenmue 3 font for the title and update the Ryo character model and voice (preferably with Corey) then it would be an amazing teaser. they probably didn't do this because of time restraints and secrecy concerns.

if we are to be honest Ryo's appearance differed greatly from artwork to artwork and from game to game anyway. but i think we can be certain that this teaser does not represent ryo's appearance in the final game.
User avatar
johnvivant
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: November 2008

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby hoonding » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:44 am

Compared to Kickstarter pitch videos of other long awaited sequels (Dreamfall Chapters, Wasteland 2, ...) it really wasn't that much worse.

And of course they will show new stuff in the coming days/weeks.
hoonding
Asia Travel Representative
Asia Travel Representative
 
Joined: June 2015

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Peter » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:52 am

Hey Atlantean, yep I remember you.

To be honest, and I know this won't be shared by everyone, but for me, I have literally zero concerns. About anything that's going on or is to come. My happiness that we even have a logo for Shenmue 3, is enough for me to die a happy man. It had gotten to the point where I had doubts we would see it in our lifetime. But now it's here, it's official, no more campaigning, mo more asking, no more begging, no more speculating......

It could be the biggest pile of dung and I won't care. We got to experience all of this, to get an actual game rather than some piece of non interactive media, and we will get to finally see where Lan Di went in that chopper from the top of the Big Ox Building and finally finish the story!

Your post is full of a lot of points, but they are just fear and speculation based off of a concept video. Nothing more. This is Yu Suzuki himself who is overseeing this entire project. If it was another studio then I'd have more cause for concern. But you honestly think he is gonna develop some piece of crap that is, his baby, to the most die hard fans known? I don't think so. Shenmue 3 will be great. Just keep the faith!
Image
User avatar
Peter
Shenmue Dojo Owner
Shenmue III
 
Joined: February 2004
Location: Belfast
PSN: TheGasmeter
Favorite title: Shenmue II
Currently playing: Shenmue 2x

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby spinksy » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:02 am

Also with Yu Suzuki at the head of this I have very little concerns.

He is yet to release anything bad and shenmue is his baby....
User avatar
spinksy
Master of the Three Blades
Master of the Three Blades
 
Joined: May 2013
XBL: spinksy777
Favorite title: Shenmue II
Currently playing: Shenmue, skies of Arcadia

Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Himuro » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:16 am

You realize they haven't started development, right? You also realize they were just trying to find a placeholder to show SOMETHING, right? You realize hey did ALL OF THAT without much money, right?
Himuro
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: May 2006

Next

Return to Shenmue III

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000-
ShenmueDojo.net