Yakuza series

(Gaming discussion not related to Shenmue)

Re: Yakuza series

Postby Bluecast » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:05 am

I was not even involved in the discussion. My post was separate.
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Re: Yakuza series

Postby Dorian » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:20 am

OL wrote: Chances are that the change in graphics engine wasn't done just to make everything prettier though, but rather to allow more on-screen at once without slowdown, as well as being able to render larger cities in larger detail all at once. The technical stuff basically, rather than the aesthetic surface stuff.

Pretty much my point. Y5 looks much better overall, but it's not a redefinition, but an improvement. It's not a new Yakuza game under a FOX-level engine. It's a revamped PS3 Yakuza game. Looks sweet for the fans. Looks average for other gamers. Pretty much the same case as with Y3-4, just that Y5 is much bigger and more polished graphic-wise. A thing one would expect from the fifth PS3 Yakuza game.

Segata Sanshiro Jr. wrote:It doesn't matter what anyone is calling it, be it "reworking" or "redefining" we'll all STFU and buy it when it comes out.

Semantics are very important in some cases. I believe this is one of them. As for buying it blindly - yes, those of us who have the money will do it, but the Yakuza formula got so stale that they HAD to make a long break after 4 and rework everything. What gets me pumped for Y5 aren't the graphics (In this day and age? Bitch please!). I'm hyped about it because I want to see how much different, how much improved it's going to be gameplay-wise.

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Re: Yakuza series

Postby south carmain » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:05 am

Segata Sanshiro Jr. wrote: Yea but they're pretty much arguing semantics. At the end of the day the game looks a lot better, a lot of work got put into it, will likely play much smoother and we'll all (or atleast most of us) will be very happy with the game. It doesn't matter what anyone is calling it, be it "reworking" or "redefining" we'll all STFU and buy it when it comes out.

I was more taunting him for his arrogance at the end than anything else, at the end I'm basically just repeating the same things he is saying just turning them against him
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Re: Yakuza series

Postby Crimson Ryan » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:25 am

Going to start a 'Dead Souls' mode run soon.. Lord have mercy.
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Re: Yakuza series

Postby Dorian » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:12 am

I'm loving the shit out of Akiyama and Hana duet at Karaokekan. I'd buy their album. Seriously.

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Re: Yakuza series

Postby AnimeGamer183 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:52 pm

And to think I still have Y3 and Y4 to look forward to. Yet I some how doubt they can top Y2. I will be more interested in Y5 once I have played the other Yakuza installments on PS3 im sure.

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Re: Yakuza series

Postby OL » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:20 pm

^^Just keep in mind that Y3 is, in a way, a slightly smaller-scope story than Y2. It's not so much about gang wars or landscape-changing events (it doesn't work toward topping Y2 in those regards), but rather about the characters themselves on a more personal level. Big shit still happens, it just never feels as big as Y2's overarching events.
Y4 aims for the bleachers though. Easily as big as (if not bigger than) Yakuza 2 was.
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Re: Yakuza series

Postby AnimeGamer183 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:35 pm

jeez, OL is getting a little thank happy up in hurrr
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Re: Yakuza series

Postby OL » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:01 pm

I'm pretty liberal about it. I see something I like or agree with, there goes the thank button.
Unless someone says something awesome and immediately follows it up with shite. Then I refrain.
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Re: Yakuza series

Postby Who Really Cares? » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:15 pm

OL wrote: ^^Just keep in mind that Y3 is, in a way, a slightly smaller-scope story than Y2. It's not so much about gang wars or landscape-changing events (it doesn't work toward topping Y2 in those regards), but rather about the characters themselves on a more personal level. Big shit still happens, it just never feels as big as Y2's overarching events.
Y4 aims for the bleachers though. Easily as big as (if not bigger than) Yakuza 2 was.



I think thats why ive struggled with 3. Might wait and pick up 1 and 2 HD then restart 3 so i know the characters better cause the first few hours just feel like a chore with the kids.
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Re: Yakuza series

Postby Dorian » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:30 pm

OL wrote: ^^Just keep in mind that Y3 is, in a way, a slightly smaller-scope story than Y2. It's not so much about gang wars or landscape-changing events (it doesn't work toward topping Y2 in those regards), but rather about the characters themselves on a more personal level. Big shit still happens, it just never feels as big as Y2's overarching events.

Yakuza 3 didn't appear to me as something of "smaller-scope" than Y2, and I've played them one after another. Yakuza 3 features the idyllic orphanage parts, but it's just a prelude to a drama of even bigger proportions than what was going on in Y2. Landscape-changing events in Y2? In Y3, you have parties more powerful than the Korean mafia. The Tojo clan is also in an even bigger turmoil because of how those parties play with it. I guess you simply mean that Y2 appeared more crazy because of being more fast-paced, right? That's true, of course. Y3's narrative is build in an entirely different way, but it's not by any means of 'smaller-scope'.

Anyway, I finally started my Y4 run. The game looks far better than Y3, which already looks quite good for such an old PS3 game. The engine got improved a lot from Y3 and the game looks nothing like those shitty shots south was posting yesterday. The game is crisp, the new environments are beautiful and the colours are rich, somewhat romantic even, especially during sunsets. If you're playing it on a good HDTV, it looks very close to those Y5 shots that SEGA is spamming of late. The new engine is more about bigger environments, better physics and better AI than visuals per se.

I'm also loving the dialogues. They are even better than in the previous instalments. Saigo's awesome with those MGS jokes, for example. It's also extremely nice to see those direct Shenmue references.
Midorikawa's chainsaw attack is a great nod towards the Shenmue wackos.

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Re: Yakuza series

Postby OL » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:47 am

I know the actual threats encountered in Y3 are bigger than Y2, but the scope of the conflicts themselves still came off as a bit smaller to me.
Whereas Y2 eventually had a very literal and public gang war erupting on the streets of Kamurocho, culminating in a one-on-one skyscraper fight between two perfectly-matched warriors (it was like a Wolverine vs Sabretoothe/Spider-Man vs Venom/Solid Snake vs Liquid Snake kind of thing) while a bomb ticks down to oblivion, Y3 involved much more localized, less-public action going on, ending with a fight against a much less-imposing (or rather less-built-up) final enemy atop a much shorter, less-impressive building.
It was mis-wording on my part to say that the actual story was smaller-scope, but the action and events encompassing that story still came off as smaller to me. Might just be a matter of perception, but that's how I saw it. The slowed pace, as you said, probably contributed to that as well.
By the end, it felt like the true focus of the story in Y3 was less on the events (as in the case of its two predecessors), but rather on the character of Kazuma himself, seeing how he deals with things like friendship, suburban contentment, loss, and greater responsibility than he had had previously.
Saying it felt "smaller" isn't meant as negative by any means. It just felt to me that whereas the previous two games came off sort of like blockbuster action movies backed up by great characters, Y3 was a little more like a character-focus piece backed up by great action.
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Re: Yakuza series

Postby Dorian » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:52 am

OL wrote: I know the actual threats encountered in Y3 are bigger than Y2, but the scope of the conflicts themselves still came off as a bit smaller to me.
Whereas Y2 eventually had a very literal and public gang war erupting on the streets of Kamurocho, culminating in a one-on-one skyscraper fight between two perfectly-matched warriors (it was like a Wolverine vs Sabretoothe/Spider-Man vs Venom/Solid Snake vs Liquid Snake kind of thing) while a bomb ticks down to oblivion, Y3 involved much more localized, less-public action going on, ending with a fight against a much less-imposing (or rather less-built-up) final enemy atop a much shorter, less-impressive building.
It was mis-wording on my part to say that the actual story was smaller-scope, but the action and events encompassing that story still came off as smaller to me. Might just be a matter of perception, but that's how I saw it. The slowed pace, as you said, probably contributed to that as well.
By the end, it felt like the true focus of the story in Y3 was less on the events (as in the case of its two predecessors), but rather on the character of Kazuma himself, seeing how he deals with things like friendship, suburban contentment, loss, and greater responsibility than he had had previously.
Saying it felt "smaller" isn't meant as negative by any means. It just felt to me that whereas the previous two games came off sort of like blockbuster action movies backed up by great characters, Y3 was a little more like a character-focus piece backed up by great action.

I will insist it's totally about your perception, probably stemming from the fact that you've played Y2 when it was still hot and seemed like such an epic-scale story when directly compared to Y1. I've played it for the first time a month ago and I've made a straight jump to Y3 after beating it. There was no kind of sentimentalism when I was comparing those two games and I must strongly protest against what you wrote. The Omi Alliance's attack on Kamurocho presented in Y2 is, in fact, of smaller scale than the Snake Flower's attack on Kamurocho from Y3. The Omi Alliance's one was just a diversion and stopped very quickly. Lau Ka Long from Snake Flower worked on his own to deliver a devastating blow to Kazuma, treating Kamurocho in an inhumane way. The attack of Snake Flower is also presented with more detail and on a bigger scale gameplay-wise, partly thanks to the PS3 hardware. Y2 actually seems of smaller scope in this regard so it's really ironic.

I completely do not understand why you're making that distinction between the boss fights from Y2 and Y3. I was surprised that both games use such similar ending bosses. The fight with Ryuji atop Kamurocho Hills and the fight with Mine atop Millenium Tower - both are build on the same kind of epicness, even the QTEs and music are very similar. Yes, in Y2 there's a bomb ticking off during the last fight, but a smart player knows from the dying words of Terada that the bomb is just a dummy (and even the narrative later reveals that Kazuma himself expected it). Besides, in Y3 you fight with seemingly dying Daigo lying on a bed right next to you and you have a perfect panorama of Kamurocho at night as a background. I'd say it's even more 'epic' than the unfinished construction of Kamurocho Hills from Y2.

All in all, I just didn't see Y3 as being of smaller scope. This isn't nitpicking by any means. I just wanted to point out how surprisingly different our perception of these games is.
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Re: Yakuza series

Postby OL » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:56 pm

Ah, you know, I'd forgotten about the Snake Flower Triad thing. Been a while since I played either game, so yeah, I could just be remembering it wrong.
But I do still hold that the focus of Y3 compared to earlier games leans more toward Kazuma and the different aspects of his character, rather than the big, explosive events going on. I remember that feeling very clearly. The events are still there of course, but they aren't quite as much the focus as is Kazuma's reactions to everything, the way he handles his responsibilities, relationships, etc. The change in writer between Y2 and Y3 was a major contributor to that, of course.
That focus probably contributed a lot to whatever perception of "size" I had about the game.
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