Voting For Mods

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Voting For Mods

Postby Riku Rose » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:07 pm

I'm partly making this because I feel the other topic is more about making Peter mod and also want to see how people actually feel about this without being silly.

I think a voting system would be great for this place. Many people are starting to crawl back from under the woodwork simply because they haven't been happy with the modding. Letting people vote can keep the majority of people happy.

This is just me thinking aloud but maybe let people vote for mods once every year and the top two get the promotion.

In the end it's Yama's site but just interested to see if I'm the only one who thinks this would work as long as rules where set to stop people ruining the vote.
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby Spokane » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:11 pm

So this is a democracy after all?
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby MiTT3NZ » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:36 pm

To be honest, I reckon it'd be fine as just Peter. And if there was another mod, the most logical candidate would live either in Japan or West Coast US due to the fact that Peter lives in Ireland (smack bang in the middle of the GMT system)
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby Spokane » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:42 pm

There are only a small handful that live on West Coast USA besides me and not very many Japan ones, and they don't post much anyway.

But your logic is sound, Bluecast was an hour ahead of me, I think any North American zone would suffice really, then there would be more candidates.
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby Peter » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:46 pm

Riku Rose wrote:This is just me thinking aloud but maybe let people vote for mods once every year and the top two get the promotion.



I disagree, and have always disagreed with moderator voting even back when we had it during the old days when WS introduced the moderator voting system. I turned down moderation of the Shenmue forums because i didnt think it was right. The reason for it is why i quoted that particular sentence above. Its not a "promotion" at all, and a lot of people think its great. Like its a membership to a cool club, or some secret society. If you think that you have it all wrong. The job sucks to be honest, mainly because you put yourself on the pedestal to be judged by everyone else. You are helplessly in a position of "your damned if you do and your damned if you dont". You dont have some sort of benevolence over the boards (well unless you choose to go down that route, as we have seen), and if anything it only restricts you from posting as openly as you want to. A quick example being when i knew our previous admin was very in the wrong for deleting posts and moving a discussion to junk, but as a collective staff member, i couldn't override the actions that had been taken, and had to be seen standing up for the staff, in turn the site owner, and in turn the Dojo itself. What was lacking in that example, was a collective unit, which brings me onto my second point.

Its very important to have staff who share the vision that the site is to go in, and also are all on the same wavelength in terms to addressing the duties they have been given to carry out. When determining who these staff members are, those qualities have to be spotted and nurtured to see if the person has what it takes. That cannot be determined by a voting system since people who do have a vote to cast may not be 100% sure on what they are voting for. Thats when it descends into a popularity contest, and can lead to the wrong people doing the job. Instead of moving forward, you end up just moving side to side.

I said in the first paragraph, the job sucks, and it does to an extent. So then, why would anyone want to do it? Well for me, there was one benefit to it all, and that's the feeling that you are doing a service to the community. Thats the greatest thing about it. You know you are doing a job that someone has the confidence in you to do, and when time goes by and you have the support of the community, then that's a fantastic feeling. The creation of the topic to have me reinstated is up there with a Shenmue III announcement to be quite frank. It just said to me that what had been doing over the past year was good, and that people had benefited from it. Its a shame all the messes that have happened over the past years after Yama took over, because they should never have happened. But unfortunately a stone was dragged from the past into the new era, and it had not been polished enough to help support the home. I did my best through those times, and i can only hope that it made this place better, and safely come to this point where change is once again on the horizon.

There are changes coming. I dont know what they are, i am as in the dark as you guys. But George is a fantastic guy, and has experience in this. He has a vision and a direction that he wants the community to go in, and i fully support what he has planned, with or without me as a staff member. He knows that, and i will throw the dice and say that there will be specially appointed staff members arriving soon. Some could be familiar faces, some could be brand new faces. But whatever it is, i have no doubts that this place has reached another crossroads for its history books, and i feel that it really will be powering onto what this place should have been 18 months ago. The teething troubles are over now. Bring on the future.
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby Riku Rose » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:02 pm

Well me calling it a promotion was just me using a word I'm sure it can be a bitch at times. I think Mittens has a good idea with the one mod being in Europe and the other being in America.

This is all me just talking bollocks at the moment I'm sure Yama has people in mind already it's just maybe a thought for the future.

Also I think it being a popularity contest could be avoided with certain rules. Maybe only letting donators vote or people who have an average of over 2 posts a day.
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby Yama » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:32 pm

I have to admit, if I had listened to my gut on more than one occasion none of this would have happened. But the other side of me is happy it did, because it's allowing for a forced change that everyone agrees must take place. In ways, I don't think it could have happened any other way here at the Dojo, haha.

Coming into this I had a clear vision, one that in ways was misunderstood early on but clearly accepted over time. This is fair, everyone needs time to earn respect and most of all trust. Ironically enough I've been a member here just as long if not longer than most who opposed certain aspects, though admittedly I feel it was still more of your community than mine, as I took extended breaks and only lurked at times. Nevertheless here we are in 2012, I'm partaking in the community as an active admin and we all care for the same place and for once I think we can agree we all understand what makes the Dojo live on.

The only difference now is that I've paid my dues dually now, through craft and time. With that said I'm going to make the decisions I feel are best for the Dojo. I will always listen to community input, but in the end I want the site to last and if it makes two or three people unhappy in the process, I'll sleep better at night knowing they'll come back down the road to a fair and honest place that is still alive and prospering. Though I doubt any changes will make anyone unhappy, unless you have a vendetta against the Dojo, because as stated I truly feel we are all on the same page for once and for all.

In specific, I don't think we need a huge team. Down the road I may add a second wave of new generation moderators, but as for now I'm more or less settled in who I'm adding, thus voting is unnecessary at this given time.
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby Segata Sanshiro Jr. » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:59 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bQnxlHZsjY[/youtube]
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby KiBa » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:52 am

Well, I must say, it is a great honor to be appointed by Yama as the sole new mod of the Dojo. I accept, and promise all of you that I will not take the position lightly.

It is a new era for the Dojo!

:devillaugh:
Check out yeo's The friends of Ringo Ishikawa:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =861780193
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby Sonikku » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:14 am

I would wish to be the first to suck up to welcome our new Kiba overlord. =D>

Sonikku has received a thanks from: KiBa
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby Neo Matrix » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:36 pm

Peter wrote:
Riku Rose wrote:This is just me thinking aloud but maybe let people vote for mods once every year and the top two get the promotion.
I disagree, and have always disagreed with moderator voting even back when we had it during the old days when WS introduced the moderator voting system. I turned down moderation of the Shenmue forums because i didnt think it was right. The reason for it is why i quoted that particular sentence above. Its not a "promotion" at all, and a lot of people think its great. Like its a membership to a cool club, or some secret society. If you think that you have it all wrong. The job sucks to be honest, mainly because you put yourself on the pedestal to be judged by everyone else. You are helplessly in a position of "your damned if you do and your damned if you dont". You dont have some sort of benevolence over the boards (well unless you choose to go down that route, as we have seen), and if anything it only restricts you from posting as openly as you want to. A quick example being when i knew our previous admin was very in the wrong for deleting posts and moving a discussion to junk, but as a collective staff member, i couldn't override the actions that had been taken, and had to be seen standing up for the staff, in turn the site owner, and in turn the Dojo itself. What was lacking in that example, was a collective unit, which brings me onto my second point.

Its very important to have staff who share the vision that the site is to go in, and also are all on the same wavelength in terms to addressing the duties they have been given to carry out. When determining who these staff members are, those qualities have to be spotted and nurtured to see if the person has what it takes. That cannot be determined by a voting system since people who do have a vote to cast may not be 100% sure on what they are voting for. Thats when it descends into a popularity contest, and can lead to the wrong people doing the job. Instead of moving forward, you end up just moving side to side.
This is exactly why I would be against it too. I'm on another site where voting for mods happens and the number of times people nominate someone because "they're a good friend of mine" and those that vote one way because others they favour already have posted their opinion means you get nothing but a clique culture in the upper ranks, which is what you definitely don't want.

Riku Rose wrote:Well me calling it a promotion was just me using a word I'm sure it can be a bitch at times. I think Mittens has a good idea with the one mod being in Europe and the other being in America.
Everyone calls it a promotion, because in terms of forums heirarchy it is.

In terms of having someone "on call" 24/7 the geography will come into play, but the forums don't move so quickly that you'd be buried in messages to deal with something should you decide to miss a day of checking up on stuff. So maybe just having one global mod would be a way to go (seeing as Yama hasn't announced anything yet I'm. All that's needed now is to ensure any mod in the future has clearly defined areas of responsibility and how to deal with issues in the same way Yama would do it as administrator. It's possible Yama could do the moderating job by himself anyway and doesn't need a global moderator to deal with it, but I don't know what his workload is. Permissions have to be looked at too, I don't understand why a global mod was able to do any modding or demodding, especially of someone at the same rank (if my reading of the earlier situation was correct). That kind of stuff should always be down to the administrator.

The forums display the team as:
  • Mr. Rod - Coder
  • Master Kyodai - Global moderator
  • Sean - Shenmue Dojo News and Updates
  • Ziming Veteran - Shenmue Dojo News and Updates
  • OL - ???
At least that's how I'm interpreting the page.

Riku Rose wrote:Also I think it being a popularity contest could be avoided with certain rules. Maybe only letting donators vote or people who have an average of over 2 posts a day.
Not really, that would still turn into a popularity contest. Anything voting-wise comes down to popularity if "the issues" aren't a part of the decision. You're voting in someone to drone around and deal with things and sometimes have your ear in the staff, so of course you're going to go for the one you get on best with or who is most popular so as not to seem as trying to rock the boat.
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby south carmain » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:14 pm

yeah mods shouldn't be people that are liked by the members unless if he is 100% suitable for the job or they will just let him get away with things until it becomes ridiculously blatant, though on the other hand we could vote if the wherever to take the mod down or not after a series of infractions
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby Crimson Ryan » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:20 pm

Neo Matrix wrote:Permissions have to be looked at too, I don't understand why a global mod was able to do any modding or demodding, especially of someone at the same rank (if my reading of the earlier situation was correct). That kind of stuff should always be down to the administrator.

Ryudo was administrator alongside Yama. More permissions than Peter and OL (less than Yama, I'm guessing.)
You can find me at Tojo Dojo Forums along with Shenmue Dojo regulars!
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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby Sonikku » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:34 pm

Neo Matrix wrote:
The forums display the team as:
  • Mr. Rod - Coder
  • Master Kyodai - Global moderator
  • Sean - Shenmue Dojo News and Updates
  • Ziming Veteran - Shenmue Dojo News and Updates
  • OL - ???


Yeah the thing OL is known for supplying the dojo with is a closely kept shenmue dojo deep dark secret...

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Re: Voting For Mods

Postby MiTT3NZ » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:38 pm

Who the hell is Sean?
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