Lincoln

[Axm]

Fuck I'm so hyped for this movie.
Comes out tomorrow. Reviews are already praising it up and down. The cast is perfect. Soundtrack is on point.
Im gonna try and see it tomorrow or saturday.

Lets discuss!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_PfTl63qQQ[/youtube]

[Mr. Frozen]

I thought this was going to be a topic about Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter.

I am slightly disappointed to find out that it isnt. THis movie does look interesting, though.

[OL]

I was interested for a while until I found out that it's all about the month leading up to the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation.
I thought it was going to cover the lesser-known stuff, the other aspects of his presidency that people rarely cover. An entire presidency isn't just about a single signed document. And yet that's all we ever get to learn about Lincoln.
"He freed the slaves."
He was a president during one of the most important wars in our history for chrissakes. There is a lot of ground you could cover with that. A single document signed more so to win back support from the British is not the only notable thing to his name. He wasn't anywhere near as altruistic toward the plight of the slaves as we all like to think, and yet that's exactly the portrayal we're getting from this movie (going on about "human dignity" and whatnot; basically misinforming people about who he was).
Actual quote from the Lincoln Memorial itself:
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."

I don't doubt that the movie will be really good, I'm just irritated at the single-mindedness everyone seems to have about Lincoln. I'd be very happy with a movie that covers his actual presidency, but from what I've heard, that's not what this one is about at all. Just another rambling on the "he freed the slaves" subject.

I'll likely end up seeing it (I'm in an American history class at the moment, and we're moving into the Civil War era soon), I'm just disappointed at what I've caught glimpses of so far.

[Bluecast]

Be more interested in a film about his life before president. His life growing up. I remember as a kid reading a book at home about him in all his life from a kid to a young adult. Was really interesting. I have no interest in a shitty film about vampires and no interest in a film about something drilled in every ones heads in history class in every single grade.

[OL]

Well the vampire one... I actually am interested in that.

[Axm]

I was interested for a while until I found out that it's all about the month leading up to the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation.
I thought it was going to cover the lesser-known stuff, the other aspects of his presidency that people rarely cover. An entire presidency isn't just about a single signed document. And yet that's all we ever get to learn about Lincoln.
"He freed the slaves."
He was a president during one of the most important wars in our history for chrissakes. There is a lot of ground you could cover with that. A single document signed more so to win back support from the British is not the only notable thing to his name. He wasn't anywhere near as altruistic toward the plight of the slaves as we all like to think, and yet that's exactly the portrayal we're getting from this movie (going on about "human dignity" and whatnot; basically misinforming people about who he was).
Actual quote from the Lincoln Memorial itself:
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."

I don't doubt that the movie will be really good, I'm just irritated at the single-mindedness everyone seems to have about Lincoln. I'd be very happy with a movie that covers his actual presidency, but from what I've heard, that's not what this one is about at all. Just another rambling on the "he freed the slaves" subject.

I'll likely end up seeing it (I'm in an American history class at the moment, and we're moving into the Civil War era soon), I'm just disappointed at what I've caught glimpses of so far.

I would agree with you fully except for the matter that this was a political struggle he had to deal with too.
And despite his openly shared opinion many times AGAINST slavery he, just as Romney did so often, had to pander to his base and to the center of the isle and in Lincoln's case, do it in the middle of a war no less. Lest we forget, (and I dont assume you do just saying) the Civil War was well into effect while this legislation was still trying to be passed. So while he didnt want slavery to spread any further he ofcourse valued the preservation of the union above all. How could you blame him? The economic fall out from cutting the cord to the south would have destroyed the country. It was not in his and the country's best interest to value an idealistic separatist revolution over the prospects of maintaining the Union while defeating the Confederacy and abolishing slavery by force. The right way.
So he pandered and he flip flopped.. he did what any politician in his situation would of had to do, but lets see how he really felt..

Speech at Peoria, Illinois
October 16, 1854
"I can not but hate the declared indifference for slavery's spread. I hate it because of the monstrous injustice of slavery itself. I hate it because it deprives our republican example of its just influence in the world enables the enemies of free institutions, with plausibility, to taunt us as hypocrites causes the real friends of freedom to doubt our sincerity, and especially because it forces so many really good men amongst ourselves into an open war with the very fundamental principles of civil liberty criticizing the Declaration of Independence, and insisting that there is no right principle of action but self-interest."

Speech at Chicago, Illinois
July 10, 1858
"I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any Abolitionist."

To James N. Brown
October 18, 1858
"I have made it equally plain that I think the negro is included in the word "men" used in the Declaration of Independence."

Speech at Cincinnati, Ohio
September 17, 1859
"I think Slavery is wrong, morally, and politically. I desire that it should be no further spread in these United States, and I should not object if it should gradually terminate in the whole Union."

and while I realize the movie is probably a gross exageration of these sentiments, I just love good acting. I like concept of a crazy idealistic Lincoln. And id like to see the movie in its entirety before I pass too much judgement.

[Axm]

I think the real thing to take away from all this is that he could have been pandering with just about any sentiment he expressed, as with any politician, like you said. Express indifference, express disgust; it was probably all different depending on the audience, just as it so often seems to be now.
Therein lies one of the biggest problems I have with a movie like this then; the filmmakers choose to portray him one way, and it becomes accepted by all as the right way. Make no mistake, this will be seen by many, many millions of people, and the grand majority of them will accept it as the full, unfiltered truth, without questioning or researching anything for themselves.
That's certainly a part of what I was saying though: there's more to the man and his presidency than just a single point. And even in that single point, there's little way of knowing his true attitudes, besides what essentially equate to what we'd call soundbytes today.
Like I said, I think it'd be far more interesting to try to explore the man himself and his full presidency (his attempt at creating a more independent debt- and interest-free currency, as an example), rather than focusing on a single signed document, and painting him as practically maniacal in his passion for it.

But I do agree, I love a good performance, and Daniel Day Lewis seems to have gone above and beyond in this case. Like I said, I don't doubt at all that it'll be a riveting movie experience. It looks excellent. I just think the actual subject matter could have been a little broader, not strictly focusing on the "stereotype," so to speak, of what people commonly envision Lincoln to be and to represent.

[Axm]

So I just saw the movie tonight. Really liked it lot. Would of loved it though if their were more to it then the 13th amendment. More coverage of the battles and of Lincolns life past the single year that is delt with. Granted all that was included in the movie was very important and to cover all the previous suggested would of had to have been a cable tv series to do it all justice.

To OL, without spoiling much, just see the movie and im sure you will appriciate the level of Lincoln's represention in respect to slavery. I dont feel it was too far from historical accuracies or past what you've seen in trailers. And certainly in comparison to some of the Republican representatives, he is quite subdued in his feelings and would rather accomplish both tasks of passing the 13th amendment and ending the war equally. In his and the republicans position at the time, he had the upper hand to end slavery so it makes sense to fight for it before ending the war.

Really the movie should be seen by all Americans as it is extremely important ofcourse historically, but also to grasp a solid understanding in how our executive and legislative government works. In its advantages and draw backs.
And you cant help but feel the undertones of a certain other piece of legislation that was passed under Obama. Atleast thats what I felt from it.

[Kenny]

I saw it awhile ago and I thought it was REALLY DULL. There were a few scenes that picked it up a bit but man, was I disappointed with all of Lincoln's little stories and...man, I don't remember anything except the pivotal voting scene.

And what was up with not showing his death?! C'mon! Just cause we know how it goes doesn't mean it shouldn't be shown!

Yeah yeah, it's history. It was all about securing votes to pass the 13th amendment to stop the Civil War but also free a nation of slaves. But at the same time, it's a movie. I was expecting some dramatization and barely got any. I saw the vampire hunter movie a couple of days ago and it was a bit more entertaining, even though it was a pretty shitty film. But at least I was awake most of the time.

Probably not a movie for me, but I really enjoyed Amistad and expected a movie like it.

[OL]

^^And you know what boring means, right?
OSCAR BUZZ!!!

[Bluecast]

Maybe if they had thrown in some vampires...oh....nevermind

[Kenny]

I'd say it needed more titties and a few fart jokes here and there.

Then BOOM, perfect.

[KiBa]

Maybe if they had thrown in some vampires...oh....nevermind

That was a great movie. I don't care what anyone says. It's a masterpiece. It even had Rufus Sewell.