Let's just say SIII is in development and....

[RyoHazuki84]

I do want free form practice back. I was upset it was taken out in Shenmue 2 because I liked developing your moves.

[Who Really Cares?]

Yep and a proper sparring opponent who you can actually hit.

Also let us spar with Mizuki. He says he will be in the warehouse now and then but never was.

[MiTT3NZ]

Innit. Used to drive me up the wall lookin for him.

[KiBa]

I just want my portable tape player and phone booths back. Maybe a kitten.

[Bluecast]

Yeah yeah beggars can't be choosers but eh not only bring practice back but the bike from the beta.

[ys]

When Shenmue 2 came out I thought - "wow, this world is so awesome. How amazing are games going to be like in 10 years?!".
Obviously everything went wrong from what I had imagined and games aren't more complex. Only graphics and sometimes mechanics are, but not the worlds and experiences/vibes.

etc.

Interesting post. This partly sums up how I also hoped games would evolve. Especially when they were talking about the possibilities of the current consoles and that they would be able to focus much more on AI and not only graphics.

[MiTT3NZ]

Yeah, pretty much. I feel more immersed in smaller, more intimate environments like Shenmue and Deus Ex than the likes of GTA and L.A. Noire. Although I still love GTA games, you're detached enough to justify going round on killing sprees when you're bored. If you were to permanently kill an NPC that you actually liked in an area where other NPCs know your character, chances are you'd actually come to regret it.

But yeah, there should be less emphasis on the size of areas. The efforts should be put into the little details. Takin a step backwards to take a leap forwards, as it were...

[Tred]

I wouldn't care if the graphics aren't amazing. For me, we've reached a point where even the standard looks good enough. I'd rather the focus went on other areas like voice work, sub stories, AI etc..

[Ziming]

Yu Suzuki: The concept for Shenmue 3 already exists, so... [Laughs] The world of Shenmue 1 and 2 expanded outward. So, for example, in the original games, of all the data used for dialogue in the game, the main characters' dialogue was about 20%. The remaining 80% was dialogue by characters other than the two main characters. But Shenmue 3 doesn't expand outward, but inward. A lot of the dialogue is used for the main character and especially dialogue with Shenhua. They talk about a lot of different, deeper things.

[Who Really Cares?]

Does he ask if she saw a black car?

[darksniper]

Any and all arcade games from 1995 on up.


Virtua On, VF2(I.E. Yakuza 5), Gunblade, Virtua Cop are just a few off the top of my head that I'd love to see in Shenmue.

[Lan Di-sama]

Yu Suzuki: The concept for Shenmue 3 already exists, so... [Laughs] The world of Shenmue 1 and 2 expanded outward. So, for example, in the original games, of all the data used for dialogue in the game, the main characters' dialogue was about 20%. The remaining 80% was dialogue by characters other than the two main characters. But Shenmue 3 doesn't expand outward, but inward. A lot of the dialogue is used for the main character and especially dialogue with Shenhua. They talk about a lot of different, deeper things.

This quote both excites and worries me. I get nervous, because this could be a big reason why Sega won't budge - how can Shenmue 3, with this concept, be re-introduced as something brand new? Shenmue fans of old would understand a more Disc 4-esque type of game, but would this make chances for success that much more difficult? There are clearly some exciting and action-driven parts of the story left, but I do have a feeling that there will be long spells like the Guilin portion of Shenmue 2.

So, people need to get sucked into the story. But how?

Shenmue HD? A straight port doesn't sit well with me, because I think most people who have never played Shenmue before might find it a bit outdated. The 2nd game improves, but that's 15 hours of Chapter 1 to lose interest during - which I consider Chapter 1 to be the tech demo of the Shenmue series (I mean that as an analogy and not a slur - I love the first game, as much as the second). And even if it was successful, a downloadable port won't necessarily have a huge audience anyway. Could a simple HD remake lead to a 3rd entry into the series, one that "expands inward"? If they don't fix Shenmue's most glaring issues (the slow pace, especially the start of Chapter 1, the at-times unbearable VA/dialogue, and clunky controls) it may flop or just do "OK". The reality of Shenmue III might hit a tone of finality depending on the success of these ports, and one of the possible outcomes scares me.

I'm not sure how big of a makeover they'd give to a downloadable game, but there are a bunch of simple ways to improve on Shenmue that will make it feel like more of a game, for those who want to play a video game - yet, not alter the essence of Shenmue negatively for those of us who realize it so much more than a video game. For example, more challenging QTEs, a wait feature, smoother controls, and a more interactive fighting system. You can get by in Shenmue by mashing X and A, so it's easy to overlook the move-handbook, the fact you can train and transform many moves (I still couldn't care less to mess much with the 'train' feature Ryo can activate (and only by his bed?)), etc. The "action selector" could use a bit of an overhaul, as well as the menu system and inventory organization. These are easy fixes that I think Sega could very likely blow off by not putting any effort into a re-release. I hope to god they are at least having conversations about what went wrong and how they can improve, as we may be doomed otherwise. I even think a 'quest' log or something might make more people aware of the fact there are many hidden scenes and special conversations you can get. I know, the beauty is finding these yourself, but face it - most people don't have time to play through a game a dozen times to find all the secrets and easter eggs like we did.

Shenmue II was obviously a continuation of the same game, but in many ways (and mostly intentional) it was very, very different. Shenmue III sounds as though it will be even more different from II as II was from I. Plus, the original plan of a 4 or 5 game series changed a long time ago. Suzuki was somewhat long-winded when relaying the first two games' stories. I think it was essential for character development, but in terms of Ryo's progress, it took 2 full games to find Zhu Yuan Da....who likely will only be a minor player from here on out (though, his back-story could prove to be crucial). The rapid-fire plot developments required to tell the rest of the story in one installment will further distinguish it from its predecessors. Fingers crossed for a 40 hour epic.

[Tomato Convenience Store]

I think an HD re-release actually isn't a great idea from a business sense, though I would love the opportunity to play the game on an xbox 360/ps3. Many 3D games from the early 2000's haven't aged very well. I just beat the re-release of Jet Set Radio, and while it was awesome (of course :-P), the controls were pretty brutal and the game is getting lukewarm review scores (gamespot gave it a 4.5!). Most people aren't going to give Shenmue the benefit of the doubt that "flaws can be overlooked because it's from 2001", and for $10-$15 there are tons of great original games on the XBLA/PSN service. I'd definitely be afraid that the HD re-releases wouldn't do so well. As an example, I remember a big criticism of the xbox version of Shenmue II was that it was basically a DC port. How would a DC port be received on the 360/ps3? In a way, it could almost turn people away from SIII. A re-release would be great for the established fanbase, but I don't think it'll really help make too many new fans. Making major changes can be difficult and costly, too.

What I would do is make a series of videos that retells the story using the game engine for SIII and record or rerecord the lines with new voice actors. The videos can be released episodically on gametrailers.com, xbox live marketplace, PSN, steam, etc. and can serve the purpose of getting newcomers hooked on the story and leave them with a cliffhanger. You can tell the story without having to about whether or not newcomers will be turned off by the goofy voice acting, or gameplay/graphics from 2001. That makes the most sense to me and I imagine would be more cost effective than an HD rerelease.

As for SIII changes:

I would re-evaluate the role of money and what you can do with it. It doesn't serve much of a purpose in S1 and S2, except for a few story segments. Nothing you buy really does anything.

I would expand upon the fighting/training system - Require a wider variety of strategies, have more opportunities to spar, have more moves and combos to unlock and learn, etc. Maybe have a level system for individual moves, which unlock additional combos and abilities. Be careful to not make it to "video gamey" though

In general I think the "critical path" could probably move at a faster pace, with the option to explore at your own pace. Remove the tedious chores like airing out the books, moving crates, or at least have them last for a shorter amount of time. I really loved the Iron Palm/Leaf catching segments in SII on the other hand. I guess because they were more unique and were a part of Ryo's "training" (even if it just concerned the story, like the leaf catching).

I agree with some more side stories/NPC interaction and all that.

[MiTT3NZ]

What you've gotta remember is that Shenmue sold over a million copies on the Dreamcast. Guaranteed every fan will buy a release of both games on XBLA and PSN.

Then there's the people who got into it later.

There are so many gamers who bought a Dreamcast and copy of Shenmue I and/or II in the last decade and subsequently became fans that it could genuinely turn out to be a best seller. Just think of all the sales SEGA has missed out on Shenmue-wise due to buying games second-hand.

I'm usually the last person to sympathise with publishers over second-hand sales generating less income, but in Shenmue's case, I feel the argument is perfectly valid. Illmatic is considered one of, if not the greatest Hip-Hop albums of all time, yet it took about a decade for it to go platinum, much less than Nas'... lesser offerings.

On top of this, it will make other gamers curious. Gamers who surf the internet regularly are bound to have heard of Shenmue at one point. If they have MS Points burning a hole in their virtual pocket and they see it on the dashboard - whether full price or on offer - they'd download the trial at the very least. And once they see the opening... Well, they can make their minds up about the game afterwards, but it has a fucking brilliant opening. Couple this with how the detail is up to modern day standards, and I'd be pretty damn surprised if it didn't cause a lot of people to buy it on impulse.

That said though, if the games are released separately, it could hurt it as much as if they're released as one package. Say if someone doesn't like Shenmue I, they probably won't buy Shenmue II, and the former will outsell the latter, causing history to repeat itself in the most awkward fashion. Released as a package though, and SEGA could be missing out on a lot of money there, but it'd at least secure enough sales for them to say "Right, okay, so there's still a market, the fanbase obviously never gave up, there's a chance we could pull this off."

Obviously, it remains to be seen whether or not HD remakes/ports are even in the works, but I definitely believe that for all the talk of next-gen, the decline in sales, Shenmue's previous "failure" and SEGA being a pit of cannibalistic suits atm, the time is now to release it. By "now", I mean the next 13 months, but hey, this could be the last truly great port or even release before we start saving up for newer systems.

[Luvly KM]

no quest markers
no flashing on important objects
no 'XP'
no perks (i know they would do this, its such a shit trait of modern games)
Japanese VO is a MUST.
Get Yakuza people to do the level design.

Only the bottom two would be difficult