In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby silent killer » Mon May 06, 2013 7:58 pm

Maybe because they don't want people with guns walking through their neighborhoods, regardless of how "peaceful" a protest they are calling for. Now since they say they will turn around if impeded, an unarmed group of people should be able to make them do just that.
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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby Axm » Mon May 06, 2013 8:01 pm

Well this is going to end badly..
Someone tell Ron Burgundy we'll be needing his meme.
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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby Sailors? » Mon May 06, 2013 8:06 pm

Never fucking ends in the USA does it.
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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby silent killer » Mon May 06, 2013 8:10 pm

Also, doesn't this pervert the very idea of a peaceful protest? It's certainly not to meet force with force. That just breeds more conflict.
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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby Mr. Frozen » Tue May 07, 2013 12:10 am

silent killer wrote: Also, doesn't this pervert the very idea of a peaceful protest? It's certainly not to meet force with force. That just breeds more conflict.


I think that is part of the point they are trying to make here. The current opinion on guns is so bad that people think anyone with a gun is up to no good, which is most certainly not the case. It is the right of an American to own a gun but for some reason half of Americans have equated guns to being bad, mainly because of how unfamiliar the average person is with firearms.

Not to be overly patriotic but America is all about keeping the freedom of the individual. Gun laws are getting raised to bullshit levels (It wasn't until recently that cops or security employees of the US government was able to carry handguns as civillians) that are really testing the constitution.

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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby silent killer » Tue May 07, 2013 2:47 am

I don't think them marching on our nation's capital with loaded guns is going to change that opinion. In any case, if he weren't cremated, Gandhi would be spinning in his grave.

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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby Riku Rose » Tue May 07, 2013 7:57 am

Jeff wrote: I'm in! Will there be catering available?

:badass:


If a car backfired anywhere near this protest you would scream like a girl and be in a ball on the floor sucking your thumb.
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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby beedle » Tue May 07, 2013 8:27 am

I have no idea how you can support this mr frozen. Not only does this (rightly or wrongly) provide a strong argument for tighter restriction on firearms, U.S. gun law is hardly that strict in the first place.

And that even ignores the complete idiocy of the situation. Once again I iterate that this is a small group of people marching on the country's capital with weapons. OK, so they aren't going to fire. How can the government be sure of that? Point is they can't, and I think it's difficult to argue that a State doesn't have a right to try and prevent a potential undemocratic putsch. I would also like to point out is that he expects there to be thousands of attendees. With such a large number of people, all it takes is one person firing one shot before it becomes an absolute bloodbath.


Let me ask you a question: should you, or would you expect the Russian Government of 1917 to attempt to protect itself from two hundred thousand Bolsheviks marching on the Winter Palace?
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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby Mr. Frozen » Tue May 07, 2013 10:13 am

Gun laws vary from state to state. Some gun laws are extremely strict while others are fairly weak. Why are there more strict in some states than others? I would say due to the amount of gun related crimes, and the overall political view of the state. This is a democracy, after all. The popular opinion is the one that should come out on top.

Thing is, there is a point where gun laws can get too strict. What if the government gets so corrupt that a militia does need to go against their government? I am sure when I said "this is a democracy" in my previous paragraph at least one person thought "Yea, right... maybe if our votes actually mattered." or something along those lines. We do vote for who we want to place in office, but it is no secret that this is not a perfect system. If the system gets out of whack enough, we will still need to have the ability to be able to rise against the government and protect ourselves from tyranny.

This demonstration is a direct representation to see if it is still possible for people to create such a militia. The law says we can, but giving the current popular opinion of the country, is it even possible? The intent of these people are not to overthrow the government (which is, no shit, illegal as hell). In washington DC, a civilian cannot even get a concealed handgun permit if they had good reason to, which I think is kinda bullshit.

Now lets say your scenario does play out where shots are fired and people start dying. What does this mean? First, it means that the people who took part in this march were not "peaceful protesters" and were in fact terrorists with a very elaborate plan. The only reason a government official will fire is if they feel that their or someone else's life is in danger, meaning a participant of this march points their loaded weapon at someone else. That is clear ill intent which means intelligence failed to get a proper background on the organizer of this event. Since this is a march on Washington DC, it is a potential threat to national security so you can bet US intelligence agencies are following this with a close eye. Depending on what they come up with will determine the government's reaction to this event. This is not anything out of left field like 9/11, the Oklahoma bombings, or any other terrorist attack (it is posted on facebook for God's sake) so I expect this event to be handled extremely well. However, if your scenario does play out for whatever reason, that will just prove the government's sheer incompetence in being able to protect their own people, which is a signal that it may be time for a significant change. Not an american revolution change, but still a change.

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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby Axm » Tue May 07, 2013 12:14 pm

This really is a provocative test. They want to see how DC police and government agencies will react or not to it. Either way its also a political ploy to make the claim that the government is "tyrannical" if it protects itself or reacts to provocation. If they dont when someone gets shot and no break out of violence happens they can claim incompitence. And then if nothing at all happens, its as peaceful as can be, the group will still claim its a national security issue and DC is still incompitent.
Either way they link it all to being Obama and the governments fault. You cant win with these kind of people or the NRA for that matter. Its either every man woman and child can get a gun with zero regulation or you're anti-2nd amendment.
Its a pitiful display of arrogance and disrespectful to law enforcement who would otherwise being doing anything remotely more important than this.
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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby beedle » Tue May 07, 2013 12:20 pm

Mr. Frozen wrote: Gun laws vary from state to state. Some gun laws are extremely strict while others are fairly weak. Why are there more strict in some states than others? I would say due to the amount of gun related crimes, and the overall political view of the state. This is a democracy, after all. The popular opinion is the one that should come out on top.

Thing is, there is a point where gun laws can get too strict. What if the government gets so corrupt that a militia does need to go against their government? I am sure when I said "this is a democracy" in my previous paragraph at least one person thought "Yea, right... maybe if our votes actually mattered." or something along those lines. We do vote for who we want to place in office, but it is no secret that this is not a perfect system. If the system gets out of whack enough, we will still need to have the ability to be able to rise against the government and protect ourselves from tyranny.

This demonstration is a direct representation to see if it is still possible for people to create such a militia. The law says we can, but giving the current popular opinion of the country, is it even possible? The intent of these people are not to overthrow the government (which is, no shit, illegal as hell). In washington DC, a civilian cannot even get a concealed handgun permit if they had good reason to, which I think is kinda bullshit.


I'm aware of why the right to bear arms exists. I get that. I don't necessarily agree with the outdated justification but, along with the reasoning for the protest, I get it. What I don't get is how this will help your position. If you threaten any government with armed revolt - and let's be honest, despite the claims of peaceful protest, it is still a threat - it will respond defensively, regardless of whether it is corrupt, fascist or democratic (see: my earlier point in regards to the October Revolution). This will not loosen gun laws in any way whatsoever, if anything it will do the opposite, giving politicians a reason to enforce them even further.

It is the sort of half-baked idea that one would expect from libertarians; completely idealistic, ill thought out and - at best - achieving absolutely nothing.

Mr. Frozen wrote:Now lets say your scenario does play out where shots are fired and people start dying. What does this mean? First, it means that the people who took part in this march were not "peaceful protesters" and were in fact terrorists with a very elaborate plan. The only reason a government official will fire is if they feel that their or someone else's life is in danger, meaning a participant of this march points their loaded weapon at someone else. That is clear ill intent which means intelligence failed to get a proper background on the organizer of this event. Since this is a march on Washington DC, it is a potential threat to national security so you can bet US intelligence agencies are following this with a close eye. Depending on what they come up with will determine the government's reaction to this event. This is not anything out of left field like 9/11, the Oklahoma bombings, or any other terrorist attack (it is posted on facebook for God's sake) so I expect this event to be handled extremely well. However, if your scenario does play out for whatever reason, that will just prove the government's sheer incompetence in being able to protect their own people, which is a signal that it may be time for a significant change. Not an american revolution change, but still a change.


You misunderstand. I'm not saying that it is a plan, or that the organisers are terrorists. What I am saying is that you have thousands of potentially angry and rowdy people with loaded guns. These people are not soldiers: they are not drilled, there is no discipline or command structure. This is simply a group of people. There is literally nothing to stop one person acting alone and firing shot at the security that would inevitably turn up. Maybe it would be out of malice, maybe out of nervousness. Either way, out of the number of protesters that are going, you cannot guarantee peoples' behaviour at all. Incidentally, this point once again makes me wonder how much thought was actually put into the protest at all.

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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby R3N » Tue May 07, 2013 3:21 pm

Well people in America are angry for a reason especially those that lose their homes.
Are we living in a tyranny?

The government is controlled by the federal reserve a private corporation.
Even the money printed is controlled by the federal reserve.
The government do not even control their own currency.

I think maybe its too late for revolution.

Police treat you like crap and they overuse their authority.
In airports security they treat you like a terrorist every time you try to enter the country again.

Do Americans elect candidates or they get elected at places like the Bohemian Grove?

What backups the dollar? is just a paper that get printed in a irresponsible way all they want by a private organization that thens loans that money to the Goverment ? Seriously WTF????
The Goverment needs to get a loan to get their own money from a private corporation that prints that money out of "thin air" without nothing to back it up and on top of that pay high interest rate for paper and ink??? is that not ridiculous or WTF?

Do the president has any real power? or if just there to foul people that they actually elected him.

People in America are stupid really they see something in the news and they think is the ultimate truth.
They do not even show you the proof of their claims.
Either follow and accept anything they say and shut the fuck up :-# and if you think otherwise,
think different and think by yourself you are considered a lunatic, terrorist or a traitor.

Why people own guns in America? why those the second amendment was created?
The sole reason is so the people have the liberty to revolt against a corrupt government.
That is what the founding fathers did they revolt against the tyranny of their government and they created the second amendment so that people would have the power to take down the corrupt government.

See the reality the current government will continue the wars in the middle east just for oil and this gonna lead us to ww3 and more people will die in a meaningless war for greed. Why because all the bullshit that is going on in the UN some countries can attack all the want other countries with a made up excuse and have all the nuclear weapons they want.
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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby Jeff » Tue May 07, 2013 6:46 pm

In Vermont you can buy a gun right next to the video games display at your local wal mart. Or perhaps at some gas stations. There is no required background checks.

Vermont has the 2nd lowest crime rate per capita.

The root of mass shootings is mind altering anti-depressants. The media doesn't bring that up often because they are major sponsors and that's money. Sane gun owners don't cause any problems, and I'd feel safer around those sane people if they were armed.
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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby Mr. Frozen » Fri May 10, 2013 9:41 pm

beedle wrote: I'm aware of why the right to bear arms exists. I get that. I don't necessarily agree with the outdated justification but, along with the reasoning for the protest, I get it. What I don't get is how this will help your position. If you threaten any government with armed revolt - and let's be honest, despite the claims of peaceful protest, it is still a threat - it will respond defensively, regardless of whether it is corrupt, fascist or democratic (see: my earlier point in regards to the October Revolution). This will not loosen gun laws in any way whatsoever, if anything it will do the opposite, giving politicians a reason to enforce them even further.

It is the sort of half-baked idea that one would expect from libertarians; completely idealistic, ill thought out and - at best - achieving absolutely nothing.


Yep, it sure as hell is a threat. That is the point. However these guys have no reason to attack the the government and even the dumbest of person would know that it would be a losing fight. These guys just want to show off their guns and say "Hey, remember we sill have the right to carry these."

There is the fear of them doing something and killing innocents but if that happens this becomes a terrorist act and like I said, it falls on the government to determine if this will be an act of terrorism or not.

beedle wrote:

You misunderstand. I'm not saying that it is a plan, or that the organisers are terrorists. What I am saying is that you have thousands of potentially angry and rowdy people with loaded guns. These people are not soldiers: they are not drilled, there is no discipline or command structure. This is simply a group of people. There is literally nothing to stop one person acting alone and firing shot at the security that would inevitably turn up. Maybe it would be out of malice, maybe out of nervousness. Either way, out of the number of protesters that are going, you cannot guarantee peoples' behaviour at all. Incidentally, this point once again makes me wonder how much thought was actually put into the protest at all.


Fear is a hell of a thing. If you let it overcome a nation enough the people will be willing to give up their rights and freedom for security. I support this event because it serves as a reminder to the world that America is supposed to be filled with citizens that are willing to takes matters into their own hands if things get too hairy. The outcome of this event will give everyone a good feel about what the state of America is right now.
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Re: In Today's News of "Crazy People With Guns..."

Postby Jeff » Fri May 10, 2013 10:08 pm

Q: Can the US Government be tyrannical, and tyrannical towards conservative groups?

Ex: In today's news http://bigstory.ap.org/article/irs-apol ... ive-groups

A: Yes.
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