Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

[OL]

I think I just "beat" the game this morning. I may have had a better experience with it than some though, since I was actually aware that mission 46 is technically the "last" mission as far as story goes. So knowing that, I may have just been able to appreciate it a little more.
I totally agree that the story as a whole was really weak. The stuff about the parasites was just... long in the tooth. So much prattling on about it, with almost nothing actually happening with it. And everything in the first chapter (the first twenty something missions) seems really loose and unfocused now that I'm looking back on it. It may have just been the fact that I stretched all of this out over 138 hours (holy shit, longest I've ever spent on any game in one playthrough), but judging by Riku's scant 50-hour time and his resulting thoughts, I'm thinking that's not really the case.
Anyway, whoever it was (too lazy to look right now) that said that it seemed like Kojima just had a bunch of ideas for scenes in his head with no plan on how to fit them together... that actually seems about right. There really are some excellent scenes here and there, definitely a number that will stay with me for a long time, just as the rest of the series has. But there just aren't enough of them, and they're all so far apart that you almost start to forget there even is a story.

Have to say I actually really loved the twist though. I was thinking for the whole game that it was going to be something else entirely, but then it kind of threw me for a loop. And as nutty as it is, the now-traditional timeline at the end actually shows that it totally fits within the series as a whole. The game does feel like it just kind of ends with no build-up or climax, but the timeline and the twist do manage to bring the series full-circle; there might be some gaps to fill in or whatever, but it's mostly stuff that only needs to be told and not shown. Surprisingly, MGSV really does bring the series to a sort of close, just as I was hoping Kojima would pull off. The story of the game itself is obviously "unfinished" to a degree, but when considering its place within the full series timeline, it actually segues right into the original Metal Gear.

I'm not going to comment on everything yet, because I still haven't seen some things (this "rain scene" with Quiet hasn't happened yet for me, and I haven't quite finished everything with the "secret" side-story on the medical platform), but I just thought I drop my basic thoughts post-credits. I think it'll actually be about a year or two before I can really place how I feel about the whole thing, but it's certainly got its ups and downs as it stands now.

[Monkei]

phpBB [video]

I love quiet and that she's in the game and I'd actually like to marry her - still, this is not only hilarious but also 100% true.

^So is the ending the same as Peace Walker where you have to replay missions about 3 times to unlock a story mission?

Yes

No.

I don't really remember how it was in Peace Walker, but in Phantom Pain you don't have to replay anything to unlock stuff. A bunch of story missions show up again as variations with higher difficulty. For example mission 42 is mission 29 again, just this time you deal and can take less damage. And you can't use this and that equipment/buddy/whatever. Stuff like that. Mission YY is mission XX again, just this time it's Game Over as soon as a guard spots you. But you don't even have to do (all of?) these missions to unlock all story missions.

[...] cut content [...] Eli jumping into the cockpit of Metal Gear which was in Mission 51

That's in the game. Eli is actually hopping into the cockpit of Sahelanthropus. He steals it with the help of Little Mantis and they take off into the sunset. It happens after you complete the five "bring the escaped children back to Mother Base" (or something) side ops. Unless you were talking about some other, similar cutscene.

Whew. I cleared Episode 46 yesterday. While I initially disliked the twist, I've got to say it's growing on me. And like OL already said, after seeing the updated timeline it started to make more sense within the series' context and just "felt better" in general.

Concerning the timeline though: I found it a little weird that Solidus Snake wasn't mentioned in it or anywhere else in the game. I mean come on, he was the goddamn president.

After having spent about 115 to 120 hours with this game, I've got to say - it's excellent. You guys already mentioned its obvious flaws (unfinished story, messed up second chapter, missing third chapter (didn't know about that), a lot of build-up without payoff, lack of cool bossfights etc.), but it took about 109 hours into the game until even a single negative thought about it crossed my mind. And that says something. 109 hours of pure fun and enjoyment, doing side op after side op and managing Mother Base without feeling bored for one second. That's mind blowing to me, I've never played a game for that long, let alone enjoyed a game for more than 50 hours without it starting to feel like a drag. Great game, and addictive as hell. Best Metal Gear. Most definitely not storywise, but by far gameplaywise and thus overall. IMO, of course.

I've still got 2 more main missions and about 23 more side ops to clear and I'm so looking forward to it.

[Monkei]

Sorry for double posting, but there's something I'd like to hear some opinions about. Have you guys thought about the meta aspect of the plot twist?

What I mean is, Snake/Big Boss' phantom is basically us. With him originally looking like the avatar we created and all it's very obvious, but it still took me a day to come to this thought. He was some John Doe in the game's story because he's everyone of us. To me it seems that this whole aspect of MGSV's plot is a comment on and a message to us, the players of Kojima's Metal Gear games. What the phantom does is basically what we do. Acting as Snake, playing Big Boss. At times we might even immerse ourselves into the game to the point of momentarily, briefly actually thinking of ourselves as Big Boss and forgetting who we originally were. OL mentioned the phantom Boss' reflection in the chopper being the avatar the whole time. What happens in the game can be seen as a metaphor for us gamers playing a Metal Gear title. Big Boss needs us, the player, to build his legacy, to form his story and he couldn't do/have done it without us. And that's pretty much what the "real" Big Boss says to the phantom in the game. Because that's the art form in which he exists, that's how games work, they can't tell their story without the player actively helping by acting as the hero. "He was always our best man" or something along those lines is what Big Boss says about the phantom. That's us. We always were the most important contributor to Big Boss' cause and the Metal Gear series as a whole. Snake/Big Boss is us and we're him.

Thoughts? Too obvious to even talk about?

[OL]

I'm not sure I really buy into it, personally. They said the same thing in one of the videos Thief posted, and while it's not a bad point, I really does seem a little too... "seen it before." It seems like most times people attribute symbolic merit to a videogame, the explanation is too often something to do with the relationship that gamers have with the games/developers themselves. In some cases it's legit (such as the case with Bioshock, and its commentary on how choice doesn't truly exist in gaming), while in others it's a complete load of shit, the analyzers trying just a little too hard to analyze (such as in the case of No More Heroes 2; I once read a long point by point article about how it's all a commentary on gaming itself, convincing most of its readers of it, when really the game is just a random mix of Suda51 silliness with nothing to say about anything).
MGSV might be trying to say something deeper, but the idea that it's all about gamers and their relationship to the franchise... I dunno, it just feels a little hackneyed if that's what it really is. It's been done. And that doesn't seem entirely... Kojima.
I like what the twist does with the overall MGS timeline and the story itself, but if the symbolic meaning of it is what you're talking about, it just feels kind of weak.

[Monkei]

I watched the video Thief posted today and felt a little stupid for having pointed something out that had already been posted
Yeah well, I'm not exactly amazed by the whole thing either, but I think that's how it's meant and I'm pretty cool with it I guess. The whole game is totally gameplay over story after all, so it's fitting in a way. But I also really like what it does to the timeline and overall story, agreed.

[Tomato Convenience Store]

I have to agree that the story was a bit of a disappointment in this game. I wonder if this could be related to the fallout between Konami and Kojima. It's possible the game was overscoped and behind schedule, so there was probably a point where they had to just get the game out, which could also explain the release of Ground Zeroes. I would say the issues with the story are more about it being "unfinished" than "bad".

It just sucks that Kojima was forced out without being able to fully complete his last game. As much as I hate to admit this, I would totally put down $20-30 for Chapter 3 DLC, haha. Hopefully the plans for the story were all laid out so I imagine it should all be possible. Plus, there are probably tons of developers and leads who have worked on the series for such a long time where they could do the rest of the game justice. I guess whether or not they're still there and Konami is willing to do that is another story entirely.

Gameplay wise the game was incredible - easily the best in the series. I felt that I was always had to mix up my strategy according to the situation. The level design and AI encouraged a lot of improvisation - it didn't feel that there was a "combat path!" and a "stealth path!" - it just all felt seamless. I think the open world idea wasn't fully realized, but still fun. The advantage was really more about being able to approach a POI from any angle, but going from point A to point B for 1500+ meters didn't really offer anything substantial.

[killthesagabeforeitkillsu]

WTF happened? Not even Metal Gear Solid is sacred anymore. Konami's 40 hours review limit was done on purpose and nobody calls them out on it. They knew exactly when the game broke down and started spamming you with filler repeat missions to continue the plot.

Mission 51 cutscenes 30% done on the collectors edition? Fuck off.
How much plot between "we will wear our brothers into battle" to "ops guess you aren't big boss" was cut?

[Snakiest]

In my opinion, 20 hours are enough to figure out that the game suffers from pacing, the way the story is delivered and lack of purpose in most of the things you do. After beating the game after almost 100 hours, my conclusion is that it is a great stealth game when you actually get to do it, but everything in between - from traversing the world to the story and its delivery - is subpar and nowhere near the level of the previous installments. I maintain that a linear campaign, even if on the same maps, with lots of cutscenes, followed by the open world formula with bonus cutscenes like the ones in chapter 2 would be the best of both worlds. As it is now, it is all of the latter, and nothing of the former. How the game got perfect scores is... Nah, it is not puzzling. We all know how. And we all know it doesn't deserve them.

In Yu we trust.

[Kenny]

That's a shame to hear.

But then again, the intro was a huge indicator of this. It was highly flashy and over the top...and yet I felt nothing. No emotion, or sense of urgency. Nothing. Contrast it with the intro to MGS1? 3? Hell, even 2? Build up and then...payoff. Even if the presentation wasn't big, expensive, and flashy.

MGS1 is still the best one in the series. Shittiest graphics? Yes. Most bare bones gameplay? Definitely. Richest storytelling, characters, and dialogue? Absa-fuckin'-lutely. I'm glad this is the last official MGS from Kojima. He just stopped caring at some point.

[Axm]

MGO is out today.
Just finished the story..kinda..I guess..
So this is nice.
Impressions coming soon if its no already a broken experience.

Edit:
...aand 10 seconds into my first match and im booted out for server maintenance.

[OmegaDawn]

deleted

[OL]

Regarding the depiction of Quiet. I mean common guys, The Last of Us had a character (Bill) that was depicted as gay for no reason (probably because they wanted to add progressive elements to it, and not to enrich the story at all.)

I am all for freedom of artistic expression. The creator should do whatever the fuck he/she wants. The free market decides at the end whether his/her game is successful.

I'm not saying I disagree with you at all, but I'm not sure Bill is the greatest example to compare it to. Bill is gay, yes, but it's such a subtle portrayal that it can easily pass you right by if you're just not thinking about that stuff. I remember in one of the making-of things for the game, someone talks about how the actor playing him had to ask about it; it's not something that's explicitly said, so even he didn't realize it at first. If anything, I'd probably call him the most respectfully-implemented gay character ever put in a videogame, primarily because his sexuality doesn't define who he is at all. It's just a single part of him.
On the opposite side of things, it's a bit more understandable why people would have a stronger opinion about how Quiet is portrayed. Her "sexuality" (or rather "sensuality," I guess) is on-the-nose and in-your-face at almost all times, making absolutely no difference to her actual personality or her place in the story. It's there for shits and giggles, and there's absolutely no way to miss it. She has so few spoken lines and such a meager part in the story, though, that her sensuality is all you're gonna think of when she comes to mind.

So yeah, not disagreeing with you; I think the backlash is stupid myself. I'm just not sure the examples jibe.

[Thief]

I'm not saying that Kojima should not have made Quiet the way he had, merely because he needs to make her adhere to some sort of dumb "okay" representation of a female. He should be able to create whatever he wants to create. That said, I'm critical of what he has created on the basis that I think it's fucking stupid. He's free to create and I'm free to criticize.

[Riku Rose]

I have no problem with how Quiet is dressed but when every scenes zooms in on her arse and tits 3 times it just gets stupid. I'm not offended in anyway I just feel like she was a wasted character at the end of the day who had tons of potential. The reason she is dressed that way could have been told a lot better or there could have just been a different reason that made more sense. The theory in my head once you find out she breaths through her skin was that she was modified by someone like Skullface to have to wear so little so she could distract people as an assassin. In my head I just imaged there would be a point when you find out she didn't want to dress like that but couldn't literally breathe in a shirt and this was some fucked up psychological torture for her. Sadly after you hear she breaths through her skin they kind of move on and that's it, even Fatman you heard his life story.

Unlike Metal Gear Solid 1 we're at a point with games now where just the way a character pulls a certain face can tell you how they feel about something. Kojima could have made a great character but it was so half baked. I felt like Kojima had some ideas for scenes but no idea how to tie them together and I think Quiet was kind of similar. I imagine he went to his artist and asked him to create a sexy assassin or sniper and when he came back with the initial drawing he came up with the other parts like how she doesn't speak or breathe.

[ShenGCH]

MGO is out today.
Just finished the story..kinda..I guess..
So this is nice.
Impressions coming soon if its no already a broken experience.

Edit:
...aand 10 seconds into my first match and im booted out for server maintenance.

I played MGO for about fifteen hours and I'm completely over it already. The lag makes the game basically unplayable at times (more in terms of consistency rather than feel); sniper rifles have so much sway they're not remotely fair, fun, or interesting to use, even with Abilities applied; player movement is so slow and flimsy unless you're sprinting, in which case you're more likely to be spotted by the enemy team; the lack of text chat is a complete misstep; there's only five maps, which is complete bollocks for a multiplayer game in this day and age; and so much more. If they can fix all the issues and add things to heighten the experience, I'll give it another go. Other than that, it can sit in the corner for all I care.

As for the story mode: while stellar in terms of gameplay and such, it really was a let-down in almost all other regards - the story especially. Parasites being pre-nanomachines (especially how they shoehorned them in to explain how some of the Cobra Unit gained their abilities) and Zero's downfall being because of parasites, as opposed to nature and old age simply tearing the power out of his hands, thus leading him to entrust all power to a machine of his reckoning, are among my biggest complaints, not to mention the cut content

Still my game of the year, though. Extremely fun to play, minus MGO.