Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

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Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby Yama » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:05 pm

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"This ongoing feature’s objective is to facilitate discussion and analysis of a variety of elements and topics regarding the Shenmue series and its respective community. The scroll will also serve to report on news and rumors regarding the series’ future. Additionally, the scroll will also highlight the efforts of those within the community who keep the essence of the series alive in their own creative endeavors.

To be published on a monthly basis, the scroll will focus on a given number of topics regarding thematic and stylistic details of the series. Areas of discussion can include: specific moments within each game and player reactions, emotional attachments to certain characters, reactions to respective musical arrangements, and the treatment of the real-life locations within the series."

The scroll can be found within the Extra Features section under the 2010+ category. Please use the all announcement threads (such as this one) to discuss each feature respectively.

View Feature | Article by: Sean
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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby Peter » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:18 pm

Oooooh! Good addition to the site. Love newsletters :nice!:
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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby Sean » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:04 pm

Thanks Peter. Yama and I spent a lot of time thinking about ways to set up new features for the site and we ultimately decided that the scroll was the way to go in terms of being able to talk about a wide variety of subjects.

On a side note, I encourage everybody to go and check out Andrew's work which we profiled in the scroll and to visit his page for his upcoming project, Ryo's Footsteps 2. His hard work and dedication to the series is nothing short of commendable.

Rakim wrote:Cool idea. But why "hazure"?


I wanted to have something involved with the Tomato Mart be a part of that particular section and I thought using 'hazure' would be interesting. While receiving the hazure card in the Shenmue's raffle means you don't win anything, it still means that you made some sort of effort in order to draw a ticket to begin with. The same goes with the award that is within our scroll feature; you don't win anything tangible but you are nonetheless recognized for performing/creating something valuable.

Hope everybody enjoys the feature and hopefully it can lead to some lively and creative discussion moving forward.
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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby mue 26 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:31 pm

Wow just read this, brilliant idea gentlemen. Kudos. And on a slightly (very) off topic note, are you a non-Japanese Japanese neo-nationalist, Sean?
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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby Sean » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:44 pm

mue 26 wrote: Wow just read this, brilliant idea gentlemen. Kudos. And on a slightly (very) off topic note, are you a non-Japanese Japanese neo-nationalist, Sean?


Thanks for reading, and you can check your pm in regards to your question.
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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby Master Kyodai » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:36 pm

Nice idea, but a bit too much speculation for my taste. Would have been nice to see some real world background info about scrolls or mirrors (as antiques) instead of being like "I claim the mirrors are scrolls, too". I have many old japanese scrolls at my home and also some ancient chinese mirrors in my possession (Though the mirrors are made of metal, not of stone - as pretty much all real mirrors that the shenmue ones were based on). Personally I'd have wished more research and less self-made mythology. But oh well, if the majority of readers is pleased then i guess that's what counts. Still i like the idea, personally hoping for a stronger next issue.

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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby mue 26 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:40 pm

I think that's a tad harsh. I don't think he was wildly speculative. It's not like some of the "Lan di is Ryo's mum" style guess work you sometimes get on the forums. For the most part he was just analysing the symbolic relevance of scrolls and mirrors in the game. I think there's room for one's own opinion and analysis of events in Shenmue, as well as more factual based articles, in the monthly Scroll. It would probably get a bit boring if it was strictly the latter.
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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby Master Kyodai » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:39 pm

Ah well it wasn't meant to be harsh. Just my opinion. Well I probably have too many (real) scrolls myself to agree to the statement that they "symbolize an element of mystery and wonder within the world". Fact is that in the game they rather symbolize written knowledge as "learning" a new technique from a scroll is highly desirable during the course of the game. Another aspect of them as written knowledge is the one in the Hazuki Dojo (the decorative one) which simply says "Keep your mind as clear as a polished mirror". Although Shenmue 3 was planned to reveal much more magic and mysticism the original 2 games merely give a hint at the end of Shenmue 2. I also don't agree on the part that the mirrors must be read and understood like scrolls. That's a bit like comparing the scrolls to Hang on, I mean come on you also must master hang on to be good at it?

The real role of the mirrors would have been revealed in Shenmue 3 - but since the majority of users here does not like the "mystic & magic" touch i fear few people would like it. if you want a big spoiler of their real role then watch the Shenmue Online CG trailer. In a nutshell they were supposed to be remote controls for giant monsters. Ah yeah okay, i guess it's time to duck down, i can already see the beer bottles flying in my direction...

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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby mue 26 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:13 pm

Fair enough, but still, I'm just happy to read someone's decently written interpretations and thoughts on Shenmue. As for the people who don't like the mystic stuff...I'll never understand them, the mystic and magical stuff in contrast to the more grounded stuff is what makes the game! Rather than feeling incongruous, it the two aspects heighten the effectiveness of each other. Because life is never really as ordinary as it appears, and the extraordinary is usually more ordinary than it appears too! Though I don't ascribe to the view that we should necessarily treat Online's trailer as a preview for Shenmue 3; that's just more wild speculation.
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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby Sean » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:05 pm

Master Kyodai wrote: Nice idea, but a bit too much speculation for my taste. Would have been nice to see some real world background info about scrolls or mirrors (as antiques) instead of being like "I claim the mirrors are scrolls, too". I have many old japanese scrolls at my home and also some ancient chinese mirrors in my possession (Though the mirrors are made of metal, not of stone - as pretty much all real mirrors that the shenmue ones were based on). Personally I'd have wished more research and less self-made mythology. But oh well, if the majority of readers is pleased then i guess that's what counts. Still i like the idea, personally hoping for a stronger next issue.


Speculation? Because we have SO much source material to refer to right?? I analyzed basically everything we know to date about the mirrors and then presented an idea based upon the "facts" we have seen. As far as research is concerned, there really isn't a whole lot of information about Chinese stone/bronze mirrors that has been written about. They were more or less ceremonial/ornamental mirrors that could be worn as apparel and depicted MYTHOLOGICAL creatures. I actually mention Chinese cosmology within the article, but for me to have gone on end on that topic would have been counter-intuitive, at least to those who can understand and appreciate nuance...

Master Kyodai wrote: Well I probably have too many (real) scrolls myself to agree to the statement that they "symbolize an element of mystery and wonder within the world". Fact is that in the game they rather symbolize written knowledge as "learning" a new technique from a scroll is highly desirable during the course of the game. Another aspect of them as written knowledge is the one in the Hazuki Dojo (the decorative one) which simply says "Keep your mind as clear as a polished mirror". Although Shenmue 3 was planned to reveal much more magic and mysticism the original 2 games merely give a hint at the end of Shenmue 2. I also don't agree on the part that the mirrors must be read and understood like scrolls. That's a bit like comparing the scrolls to Hang on, I mean come on you also must master hang on to be good at it?


So merely POSSESSING scrolls make you an expert on them? If you carefully read the first paragraph of the scroll you would see that I actually spoke of the role of scrolls and the progression/evolution of Ryo's character and personality. Too much nuance I suppose once again....The scrolls, as proved by Yuanda Zhu in Shenmue, contain information in them via the map that appeared; a point that I utilized in arguing that the mirrors are more than just inanimate objects and need to be explored or "studied" (there's that pesky bastard nuance again) further in order to have their true meaning revealed.

Master Kyodai wrote: if you want a big spoiler of their real role then watch the Shenmue Online CG trailer. In a nutshell they were supposed to be remote controls for giant monsters.


If what I wrote was nothing but "self-made speculation and mythology", then what is this exactly? Speculation not fit for a Daily Mail headline... ](*,)
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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby MiTT3NZ » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:28 pm

Mate, it was constructive criticism. The type of thing that helps you improve and up your game. He didn't come in and say "it's shit", he's giving you his opinion on the quality of content and what he, as a reader, would like to see. Don't take it personally, take on board what he's said instead of trying to make an argument out of it. It will spiral out of control. Trust me. This exact thing has happened before.
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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby Master Kyodai » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:09 am

Yeah criticism is a bitch, eh? Some people can take it - some don't. And yeah I guess I know a bit more about scrolls than you. Not in a Shenmue sense but in real life, ya know. I got loads of scrolls before i married into a Japanese family, so even before i got the scrolls i inherited from my beloved father in law (Who passed away way too early) i already had quite a collection. My wife doesn't like them so much. She is Japanese so to her they are a bit old-fashioned. Some contain arts some contain wisdom. I really like the old Jinja scrolls (A shrine). You mix up Taoism and Shintoism like it's the same. Study it a bit more would be my suggestion, but if it offends you just ignore.

And yeah Shenmue online - that game was made in cooperation with Yu Suzuki. if it wopuld have been released then that would be as far as you could get in the Shenmue story line. You can guess which speculations i would trust more - the guy who wrote the story or you. You decide.
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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby Peter » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:26 pm

Typical Dojo eh?

MK, you wanted to offer some suggestions towards the new Iwaos Scroll newsletter, but i would say they may have been put over a little arrogantly perhaps, and maybe could have been worded a little better. i mean instead of just solely offering criticism study of scrolls you could perhaps offer some help if you are a bit more.knowlegable in scrolls etc. Not asking you to dedicate a whole period time to a project, but just offering a PM or two if needed to help certainly would make the criticism feel a little more helpful, and less arrogant.

Sean, it all depends on the writing style of the piece which will define what it actually is, and perhaps as the months goes on, it could possibly evolve a bit. I mean its not going to be heavily news orientated since we just dont get much Shenmue news on a monthy basis, so if it is more opinion/theory based then you will need to be prepared for some opinions to be returned, and alternative ideas and writing styles offered.

I know that may seem like a sitting on the fence post from me (which is rare because i usually am very opinionated), but we have a new addition to the site and a heated debate/argument kicks off within a couple of days already. Sort it out lads.
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Re: Iwao's Scroll | Welcome Edition

Postby Bluecast » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:53 pm

*walks in see's staff having drama and walks out* Guess some things never change.. :-"
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