David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Suzuki

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David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Suzuki

Postby Giorgio » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:46 pm

Yu Suzuki, the creator of Shenmue, talks to David Cage about storytelling and the origins of the QTE in this video:

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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby MiTT3NZ » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:04 pm

29th minute proves that the 70-Man Battle competition was a farce. A goddamn farce I tell you!
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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby Kenny » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:28 pm

Cage gives the same answers he gave me years ago about the QTE thing. Have to say, he does seem very nervous when he answers that question.

I still want my Omikron sequel, goddammit!! Damn shame he doesn't feel the need to go back to that format.
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Re: David Cage talks with Ryan Paytan and Yu Suzuki

Postby mue 26 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:12 pm

Gawdly interview. It was so out of the blue the way Yu Suzuki was just sitting in the corner :lol: Yu is such legend, he comes across as genuinely nice guy. It has to be said though, when it comes to telling stories in games, Cage hasn't come anywhere near Shenmue's level. The thing that was mentioned about thinking about Shenmue after you put it down, and especially after you finish it, is so true, and that to me, is kinda what cage's games don't have. For example, when you're playing Shenmue, you'll likely sit down for a period every day for however many weeks it takes to complete it, and you follow Ryo and experience the quotidian, the sensational, the intriguing, the quaint little things (one of my top 3 things about Shenmue 2 is the poignant plane scences!) and probably even the tedious. It feels kind of like the real world, yet magical at the same time. Its cinematic in places and heavily story driven, but it doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. In fact, it's surprising how many little and essentially pointless things you can interact with. And so when you finish it you suddenly feel you've really lost something tangible.

Davi'd's games just don't have that; they mirror Hollywood and cinema too much, and as much as I do still enjoy his games, they are glorified movies. So after you've finished Fahrenheit or Heavy Rain, you think (or at least I did), OK that was fun, and then forget about them fast. That experience and connection is missing.
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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby Axm » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:12 am

Great interview. Ryan Payton is great for setting that up. Always been a big fan of Ryan.
True that both Cage and Suzuki have different styles but they are still very much so in the same ball park and can have relevant discussions as they did.
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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby Let's Get Sweaty » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:12 am

Kenny wrote:I still want my Omikron sequel, goddammit!! Damn shame he doesn't feel the need to go back to that format.

Where do I sign?

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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby MiTT3NZ » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:06 am

I'm one of the few on here that actually enjoyed Fahrenheit/IP (despite the ridiculous third act), but I gotta agree with mue about the "afterthoughts" following the ending of the game. Hell, even when you just pause or quit the game, it's really just something you play through.

Like everyone else says though, both Yu and Cage's hearts are on the same place, the journeys they take us on run parallel, it's just the quality and the way Shenmue's story was told that shines the brightest.

Let's just hope though that during their lunch together David doesn't utter the words "hey, why don't we work on Shenmue III together?"
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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby Kenny » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:16 am

It has to be said though, when it comes to telling stories in games, Cage hasn't come anywhere near Shenmue's level.


Speaking only about Omikron, I'd argue Shenmue is more about the quantity while Omikron is more about the quality. Yes, I said it. Crucify me if you want.

Not to say it's perfect, but I think it does a better job with telling a compelling story. Whereas both stories are derivative, you can barely tell with Omikon where Shenmue just carries the same ol' revenge story I never cared for. Not to mention the VA is amazing and there are lots of venues to explore. Shenmue's edge is that its a better game, but I thunk that's it (on PC I prefer Omikron's fight system, though its buggy on Win XP sadly).

Both equally have amazing soundtracks though.
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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby south carmain » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:22 am

Giorgio wrote: Yu Suzuki, the creator of Shenmue

wow I didn't know yu suzuki created Shenmue, what a legend.

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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby mue 26 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:27 am

Kenny wrote:

Speaking only about Omikron, I'd argue Shenmue is more about the quantity while Omikron is more about the quality. Yes, I said it. Crucify me if you want.

Not to say it's perfect, but I think it does a better job with telling a compelling story. Whereas both stories are derivative, you can barely tell with Omikon where Shenmue just carries the same ol' revenge story I never cared for. Not to mention the VA is amazing and there are lots of venues to explore. Shenmue's edge is that its a better game, but I thunk that's it (on PC I prefer Omikron's fight system, though its buggy on Win XP sadly).

Both equally have amazing soundtracks though.


All fair enough points, and bear in mind I've never even played Omikron, just Cage's later games. To be honest I think I used the wrong maybe when I said "story" I guess I meant more of a general investment in the world (as was being discussed in the vid). I suppose if your going strictly off the plot and script and stuff, I could understand how someone might prefer the writing in Heavy Rain for example,(though I personally don't find the writing in that game to be particularly inspired) and hey I guess even Fahrenheit too, if aliens created from hey wire 70s internet connections are your cup of surprise twist. And maybe your also right about the quantity thing, at least partially, as the kind of experience I described in my first post, about coming home every day and spending a couple hours just taking your time in exploring and slowly becoming invested in the in many ways every day world of Shenmue, it just's not possible with a much more focused game.

That's not to say that shorter games can't turn out gripping and emotionally investing experiences too...but Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain, they were fun games, but they didn't have me any more emotionally invested than a very low tier Hollywood flick, and that's kinda what they really were too. That's why I can't help but silently snigger when Cage was talking about the need for "fresh ideas" and new experiences. Omikron seems way freshier than his last two games. I do like Cage though, and I am quite excited for Two Souls, it seems like much more interesting premise than Heavy Rain. If he can just hold off the internet monsters, he'll be fine.
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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby mue 26 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:46 am

MiTT3NZ wrote: 29th minute proves that the 70-Man Battle competition was a farce. A goddamn farce I tell you!


Ha, this made me actually laugh. Yeah, it turns out the guy who won was really the worst player!

On that note, am I the only one who found Shenmue's QTE's quite challenging? I failed tons of them.
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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby Let's Get Sweaty » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:03 am

mue 26 wrote:I've never even played Omikron

Rectify this.

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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby mue 26 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:59 am

I most definitely will. But the first thing at the top of my rectification list is finally finishing Shenmue 1...
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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby Peter » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:06 am

That interview didnt sit well with me. It seemed awkward, and having Suzuki just sitting in a dark corner, only to discover later that hes at E3 just walking around taking pictures like your average Joe tourist makes me really sad. Imagine how many people would have walked passed him and not even know who he was or what he has done and achieved in the world of video gaming.....
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Re: David Cage Talks Storytelling with Ryan Payton and Yu Su

Postby Yokosuka Martian » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:25 am

Perhaps him sitting in a dark corner was scripted into the interview? :-p
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