Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

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Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby Thief » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:37 pm

Mikhail Bakunin wrote:The Bible, which is a very interesting and here and there very profound book when considered as one of the oldest surviving manifestations of human wisdom and fancy, expresses this truth very naively in its myth of original sin. Jehovah, who of all the good gods adored by men was certainly the most jealous, the most vain, the most ferocious, the most unjust, the most bloodthirsty, the most despotic, and the most hostile to human dignity and liberty - Jehovah had just created Adam and Eve, to satisfy we know not what caprice; no doubt to while away his time, which must weigh heavy on his hands in his eternal egoistic solitude, or that he might have some new slaves. He generously placed at their disposal the whole earth, with all its fruits and animals, and set but a single limit to this complete enjoyment. He expressly forbade them from touching the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He wished, therefore, that man, destitute of all understanding of himself, should remain an eternal beast, ever on all-fours before the eternal God, his creator and his master. But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge.


Do you believe that devotion to a God -- with whom we depend on for all moral thinking -- is dangerous to the individuality of humanity and freedom? Is religion ultimately the impoverishment, enslavement, and annihilation of humanity for the benefit of divinity?
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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby Bluecast » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:52 pm

Live and let live. As for religion. Religion never hurt anything. It's a vocal minority of people misusing it for dumbass dickwad reasons. More often then not don't blame the car in the car wreck but the driver. Forcing any belief on people religious or non religious is always a bad idea. Force anything on anyone and eventually chaos will ensue.
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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby Kenny » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:00 am

It just hinders progress on a scientific and social level.

Human beings are so volatile that it doesn't matter if they follow a religion or not. In some cases, it can be helpful. In some cases, it can be hurtful. But thinking it can change the scope of humanity by abolishing it altogether is an impossibility.

It's so easy to get people into a cult mindset because people want reassurance and validation for their existence. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I doubt there are alot of people that can accept this is all there is and live a happy life from there.
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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby MiTT3NZ » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:42 am

Most teachings of religion are the pillars of civilised society, and should never go away. Taking every word and believing it in the literal sense though in this day n age is a bit stupid, I reckon. Peeps can believe what they want, but for all the good religion is intended for, it can be harnessed for evil. It isn't evil in itself, but, well, you've seen the Book of Eli, right? I'm a straight-up atheist, but I was raised a catholic, so I know what good religion can do. I still feel uncomfortable and weirded out when I have to go to church for a funeral or summat though.
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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby Thief » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am

Let's suppose that God is real for a moment, and his reality is known by everybody. Would you upon knowing his existence then begin to bow down before him in worship, or would you deny his authority and live life in accordance to your own thoughts and freedoms despite the power of your creator? What if the result was eternal damnation? Would your freedom be more important?

Bakunin wrote: if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish Him.
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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby MiTT3NZ » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:20 am

If god was real I'd get Batman to kick his arse.
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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby Kenny » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:25 am

I'd ask him why is he such a dick.

And i'm not taking "I work in mysterious ways" as an answer.
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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby Bluecast » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:55 am

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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby wude » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:32 pm

the idea o f being a powerless slave, gives me a good feeling of satisfaction, anything i do no matter how small and meaningless it might be , is an achievement for me.
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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby Henry Spencer » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:07 pm

Kenny wrote: I'd ask him why is he such a dick.

And i'm not taking "I work in mysterious ways" as an answer.


I really doubt that if a god really exists, that It's the "puppetmaster" as some people think It is, you know? I also find it rather weird how people assume God to be a male human. Could one being really create something as infinite as the Universe?

I think people use religion as an excuse to further their own agenda and rewrite the history of their own religion to suit their own ends. People can be massive dicks, basically. I really do not think everyone being atheist will magically solve all of the world's problems and you'd be really naive if you think it would; people would just find other reasons to fight wars, to hate and be horrible. Or they'd just create newer cults/religions in their place.

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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby Kenny » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:12 pm

Not all, which is how the whole thing falls apart.

I also find it funny God is always personified as a man. What if it's a woman? Hermaphrodite? Gerbil in a plastic ball?
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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby ShenmueTree » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:45 pm

I can't agree that religion has never hurt anyone, if people actually followed the rules in scripture a lot of people would be miserable, and a lot of people are miserable because of the rules that are already cherry picked out of the text to be held as beliefs.

I mean, the scriptures are PART of the religion and to say "oh, we'll just ignore that part and do this part" just seems insane to me and then you take into mind things like sexism and racism that are central to the very core of some religions and try to say it doesn't ever hurt anything? Nope.

Though, a side note just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they're more ethical. It just means that they do not believe in a deity. Hell, atheists can even believe in the supernatural and an afterlife. I don't but, it's not unheard of.
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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby Rakim » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:48 pm

Kenny wrote:Not all, which is how the whole thing falls apart.

I also find it funny God is always personified as a man. What if it's a woman? Hermaphrodite? Gerbil in a plastic ball?


Or more realistically, like this:

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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby Thief » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:56 pm

I think the reason why God is referred to as a "he" is because "he/she" would be very distracting in conversation, not really because people think of God having a cosmic penis or anything. :P


I do agree though, if there was no religion then people would just find something else to dispute over.
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Re: Is Atheism Necessary For Ethical Autonomy?

Postby Henry Spencer » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:24 pm

Well yeah, but if a god exists, I'd think of It as a formless being, nothing we'd really recognise or perceive as a god. The image of a god with a long beard pointing down from the Heavens is a rather funny one. If we truly knew all of the mysteries of the universe, life would be boring anyway, so it's fun to ponder over these things in a way. And no doubt that religion has been the cause of wars I'm not disputing that (most, if not all faith based organisations have things to answer for, at this point), all I'm saying is that people are just too sensitive and quick to anger (and thus, to war). And wars sometimes start out because of different views with regards to who owns land (a really stupid thing to fight over, imo) and then turns into a religious war later on, or the same the other way around.

Going on about something else here: The world is a really big place and I could really care less if somebody is born on one piece of land as opposed to another, since we all used to be on the same piece of land at one point in the world's history. It was only later that nature decided otherwise and the lands got split up. People are just really inherently greedy and still year on year, we never learn and continue pointless wars.

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