The Missing Sword

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The Missing Sword

Postby MiTT3NZ » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:04 pm

So there's summat that's been buggin me for a while that a recent topic or post or whatever reminded me of...

As we all know, Ryo gets the Sword Handguard in Chapter 1, which turns out to be a key to the hidden basement in the Hazuki Dojo, as is the sword that's locked away safely infront of the entrance. First time I played it, as I'm sure many of you did, I naturally assumed that the handguard was supposed to be combined with the sword, point-and-click-adventure style, but it doesn't fit...

Now, Oishi (the antique guy who gives you the Sword Handguard) says it's been passed down through the family from generation to generation. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that it's most probably a unique family heirloom, and with it being in the design of the Hazuki family crest too, that also suggests that it was handcrafted, likely making it unique. One of a kind. Else... it wouldn't be so special, would it?

In some sort of psychic flashback towards the end of the game, Ryo has visions of his father training in the dojo (or in the black abyss, can't remember tbh) with a sword. A sword that bears the same Sword Handguard that seems to be important enough to be carried over into Shenmue II. The thing is though, this sword cannot be the same one that is found in the Hazuki Dojo, because as we've already established, the handguard doesn't fit. The flashback is not of a young, globe-trotting Iwao either, his appearance clearly shows that he is of an age where Ryo has been born. This means that the same sword cannot possibly be something he left in Guilin or Kowloon or any of the other places he's said to have been.

So this begs the question... where's the fucking sword?

A simple explanation would just be that it doesn't matter. It has no significance whatsoever, and time constraints/budgeting issues meant that they just used the models that were available to create a scene that Yu Suzuki thought would be cool. Would such a detail-heavy story/game do such a thing though? I mean, the photo of Iwao found in the basement doesn't look hand drawn. A hand drawn concept already exists, so it's clear that a model of a younger Iwao has been created. Why not just use that model?

Now let's look at the inaccessible areas of the Hazuki Residence... the shed and behind the dojo. That's it. Unless Iwao's hidden it in the fucking pond or the bushes or some shit, I'm quite certain that it isn't on the premises. Where the hell could it be then? And why do I think it's so important.

Well, in an interview with Suzuki and some other guy, probably a coder or designer or summat, it was revealed that developing Shenmue for the Dreamcast (I'm not gonna get into the whole "intended for Saturn or DC?" thing) became a no-brainer so that they could program the sword fight. The way this guy talked about it (or mentioned, at least) made it seem an important part of the game. Some epic final battle with Lan Di? The introduction of Ziming? Who the fuck knows. The point is, it was important enough to be one of the decisive factors in developing Shenmue for the Dreamcast system, so that's saying a lot.

One thing we don't know is if Ryo's actually had any training with a sword. If he did though, surely the Hazukis would need to have more than one. I mean, what the fuck's he gonna do? Have a fencing session using one of Ine-san's brooms? Assuming he has had at least a little training though, that would mean that there's definitely another knocking about somewhere. And on top of that, why the fuck doesn't the one locked away have a handguard?

Another simple explanation is that the sword became worn down or broke or some other easy way to get out of it. Does Iwao seem like the type of guy to neglect maintaining a sword then throw it in the bin when it finally snaps? No, didn't think so.

With not much to go on, there's probably not a whole lot to discuss regarding this, but I thought it's interesting enough anyway. Maybe Shengoro or Kiyuu or someone else may know something or have an inkling. Maybe it can be explained with a brief "he gave it to a museum". Maybe it's time I went to bed. Only one certainty lies within this topic though...

I want to know what the fucking deal is with this sword and why the other one has no bleedin handguard.

Discus.


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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby Peter » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:47 pm

:dunno:
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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby Axm » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:43 am

Wow mitts, first of all..
I had forgotten the sword and hand guard did not fit each other. This is a in-game piece of dialogue Ryo says to himself when the user attempts to select the hand guard while holding the sword or vise virsa yes? This fact is abit hazzy for me but sounds familiar for some reason. Please clarify.

Secondly, a proper full on sword fight was intended to be put in one of the games at some point? Do you have a link to said interview or video? Seems very interesting.

Thirdly, yes im sure Ryo had some atleast basic understanding of proper sword fighting such as with Kendo practice in his High School (which is a common club sport) along with Karate/Jiu-Jitsu/Judo. Having such a large dojo with all that space, im sure they did get down with atleast Bamboo Kendo swords every once in awhile.

Lastly, you really have gone mental man. Get some sleep. Those links had me lol. Along with the thought of Iwao hiding a sword in the pond. Fuckin lol the rust on that sword would be horrible.
Ryo: "Thanks alot dad.. you had one job to do.."

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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby BlueMue » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:31 am

Axm wrote:This is a in-game piece of dialogue Ryo says to himself when the user attempts to select the hand guard while holding the sword or vise virsa yes?
If you have both with you in the Dojo and haven't messed with the hanging scrolls yet you can press A on the selected hand guard from the menu and you can watch Ryo try to put it over the sword.

I also thought about it being strange that they don't fit together, yet you see Iwao use the sword with the hand guard in a flashback. There is a very simple explanation though. The handguard get's attached from the other side, by removing the grip somehow, so it's tightly secured between the blade and the grip. Imagine it would just be pushed over the blade. The enemy could just pull it off your sword in combat, not really a good idea...
Why Ryo doesn't know how to properly attach it to the sword is beyond me.
Maybe Iwao just didn't tought him that or any sword combat whatsoever.

I'm no expert on swords but I heard this from a buddy who probably read it somewhere and I think it makes sense.

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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby MiTT3NZ » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:13 am

Thanks for ruining my topic.
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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby BlueMue » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:43 am

Why should it be ruined? I just posted my theory. There can still be further discussions full of theories. 8)
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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby johnvivant » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:24 pm

so mittenz do you have a link to this inteview where suzuki says about planning, designing a sword fight for the series ? sounds super interesting.
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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby MiTT3NZ » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:22 pm


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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby nskachu » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:08 pm

By the way: It seems Ryo had some sword training as he is able to use the sword in the dojo (the one without a handguard).
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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby BlueMue » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:35 pm

In case anyone is still interestend in that thing about fitting the hand guard to the sword by removing the handle, I've found a video that shows the assembly process of a katana in quite good detail.

phpBB [video]
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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby shengoro86 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:13 am

Woah, nice theory. I didn't even consider this possibility.

Hmm, I wonder if we might have missed something.

I could have SWORN there was a model of a sword with no handguard in the shenmue 2 disc 4 JNTSC edition.

I'll ask LanDC.

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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby TwiceFriedRice » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:43 am

Sorry to necro this topic, but this is super interesting to me. There has to be a reason that Ryo still has it in his possession. Hopefully this topic gets a few more replies now that SIII has been announced.
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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby MiTT3NZ » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:21 am

Watch it... all this mystery surrounding the scroll, handguard, and leaf... we finally get Shenmue III and Suzuki's completely forgotten about em. Would be pretty funny.
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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby Sonoshee » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:51 am

MiTT3NZ wrote:
Now let's look at the inaccessible areas of the Hazuki Residence... the shed and behind the dojo. That's it. Unless Iwao's hidden it in the fucking pond or the bushes or some shit, I'm quite certain that it isn't on the premises. Where the hell could it be then? And why do I think it's so important.


I reckon Iwao's hidden it behind that door in the kitchen.
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Re: The Missing Sword

Postby MiTT3NZ » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:16 am

You can see it from beside the Dojo.
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