Shenhua is a ghost

(Chapters 3-6)

Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby Master Kyodai » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:43 am

Jeff wrote: Let me add to this about as I mulled this over a bit more tonight. When Ryo gets off the boat and talks to people in that very small village, there are people walking the trail which Ryo starts trekking on. When the weather all of a sudden goes from blue skies to thunderstorm and Ryo goes into the river and eventually blacks out, he then wakes up to find Shenhua and the goat, but the most interesting thing which may completely go over our heads is that since that point, nobody else is seen on all those trails, not one other person passing through.... In fact the whole rest of the game you see not a soul other than Shenhua. Maybe he's not dead per se, I doubt that given what we know that happens after of what has been disclosed. However, maybe all of that was sort of an alternate universe kind of like in Sonic Adventure, or even a dream? It did seem way too magical at the end compared to the theme of the entire game from Chapter One. Maybe after the cave Shenhua sort of dissappears, at least for a time and Ryo goes back to the home to find it's in a state of disrepair as nobody could have lived in there for years. However Shenhua's spirit guided Ryo to Guilin as the Phoenix is the spirit that protects life.




Now i got it! Ryo is a ghost! He drowned when he tried to rescue Shenhua and the goat.

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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby Peter » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:50 am

Suzuki is an M. Night. Shyamalan fan :nice!:
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby BlueMue » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:00 am

Would be kinda cool if it actually turns out that Ryo almost drowned in the river and fainted.
Then, at the start of Shenmue III, you see Ryo wake up in a cave next to Shenhua and it turns out that the voyage to Bailu Village and all the magic bs were just a dream.

I doubt that's the way it is but if Yu Suzuki ever changed his mind about the magic elements in the story, this would be a good way to "fix" it.
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby Master Kyodai » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:20 am

BlueMue wrote: Would be kinda cool if it actually turns out that Ryo almost drowned in the river and fainted.
Then, at the start of Shenmue III, you see Ryo wake up in a cave next to Shenhua and it turns out that the voyage to Bailu Village and all the magic bs were just a dream.

I doubt that's the way it is but if Yu Suzuki ever changed his mind about the magic elements in the story, this would be a good way to "fix" it.


The question then would be what he would did with the epic end fight between the Dragon and the Phoenix. But oh well i guess he could just make it a fight between Ryo and Lan Di...
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby Jeff » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:01 pm

I always hoped before playing the end of Shenmue II that the magical aspect of the mirrors were something that were unseen and remained mysterious. I was disappointed when we saw what we saw at the end.
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby shengoro86 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:22 am

When I spoke to Yu Suzuki, I brought this very subject up to him.

I specifically asked if she was dead and was just reliving in some sort of cycle.

His answer was pretty much as follows:

Shenhua has the power to connect to her ancestors. She is the combination of all others.

Pretty cryptic. He went on a bit but I can't really reveal everything he said.

But yes, you can kind of consider her a ghost depending on how you view her powers.

My own thoughts is that she really is a girl but she is oblivious to the fact that she has powers and she will only realize these qualities when they are triggered for the first time.

Like Ryo, she is discovering her own destiny.
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby DEVILLE_David » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:37 pm

Don't worry about Shenmue II's ending anymore, i mean, the cave. Not sure how it will be exploited later in the game (if its ever exploited, that is), but Shenmue III will most likely start somewhere else. :mrgreen:

As for Shenhua, i don't know much about her, but like we all already know, she's very important and is definetly a key character in the story. And when i mean a key character... i really mean it. ;-)
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby Axm » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:38 pm

shengoro86 wrote:When I spoke to Yu Suzuki, I brought this very subject up to him.

I specifically asked if she was dead and was just reliving in some sort of cycle.

His answer was pretty much as follows:

Shenhua has the power to connect to her ancestors. She is the combination of all others.

Pretty cryptic. He went on a bit but I can't really reveal everything he said.

But yes, you can kind of consider her a ghost depending on how you view her powers.

My own thoughts is that she really is a girl but she is oblivious to the fact that she has powers and she will only realize these qualities when they are triggered for the first time.

Like Ryo, she is discovering her own destiny.

Wow thanks for sharing.
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby shengoro86 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:02 pm

Axm wrote:
shengoro86 wrote:When I spoke to Yu Suzuki, I brought this very subject up to him.

I specifically asked if she was dead and was just reliving in some sort of cycle.

His answer was pretty much as follows:

Shenhua has the power to connect to her ancestors. She is the combination of all others.

Pretty cryptic. He went on a bit but I can't really reveal everything he said.

But yes, you can kind of consider her a ghost depending on how you view her powers.

My own thoughts is that she really is a girl but she is oblivious to the fact that she has powers and she will only realize these qualities when they are triggered for the first time.

Like Ryo, she is discovering her own destiny.

Wow thanks for sharing.


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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby SlySpy » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:20 pm

Shenhua being a ghost is an interesting theory, and perhaps something close to that theory might hold weight, but the detail that keeps me from believing it is the fact that I don't think a ghost would be able to cook a rabbit for Ryo to eat.

The entire sequence with Shenhua being a dream is also an interesting one, but it's fairly long and drawn out for a dream. I suppose if it's a dream or vision of mystical proportions then it might be able to break the rules of a regular dream though. What can't be denied however is that he does clearly see Shenhua before passing out and nearly drowning.

One thing that is for sure is that Shenhua does have some sort of mystical powers, and seems to be naive about how unique she is. She uses some kind of telekinesis to make a bunch of dandelions float above her if you take the proper path to Bailu village, and doesn't seem to realize that other people can not do it.

Whatever does happen, I hope the series doesn't completely jump the shark and keeps magic as an amazing mystical element that you rarely see throughout the story. The floodgates are open for magical stuff to happen of course, but I still believe it can be handled well enough to feel somewhat grounded within the game's universe.
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby Giorgio » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:05 pm

SlySpy wrote:[...]

Whatever does happen, I hope the series doesn't completely jump the shark and keeps magic as an amazing mystical element that you rarely see throughout the story. The floodgates are open for magical stuff to happen of course, but I still believe it can be handled well enough to feel somewhat grounded within the game's universe.

Yu Suzuki incorporates Gabriel García Márquez's concept of "Magical Realism", so you'll see e.g. Shen Hua's powers as an everyday way of acting, yet fantastical.

"Shenhua is actually a real person. However, Shenhua has this ability to remember her ancestors. How to say... She has the faculty to link her to them." - Yu Suzuki

In the Project Berkley video there is a line which says:
"Erupting into space and time."

We also have the Shenmue Online trailer where we see: Shen Hua transforms, also the place changes, and it looks like ancient.

As you see it was hard for Yu Suzuki to explain it in that interview, so it is a complex concept. Personally, based on a small research I've done on Chinese mythologies (especially about reincarnation) and the aformentioned resources, I can see:
- Shenhua holds the memories, experiences and powers of her old ancestors. She can retrieve them with some form of meditation (e.g. when she closes her eyes), like, imagining a place she has never visited before [at least in her (current) life], even though it is so vivid in her (inherited) memories. She's like connecting/linking the past with the present in her existence, linking past lives of her ancestors with her current life.
- It seems that there is some power (probably concerning the pair of the Mirrors; remember they can resurrect the Chi You monster, that is from the past) that can change the timespace continuum and bring from the past entities into the present and change places to their former ancient situation (maybe only partially in the world).
- Destiny plays a crucial role. It's like there is some unresolved matter from the past that is going to be solved now. Ryo seems like one of the key people to bring the resolution, as a catalyst to the endless circle of greediness and vengeance, and a battle between light and dark, evil and good ...Ying and Yang; cosmic forces of the universe, probably leading respective persons, those of the light and those of the dark, to end that. The other key person is Shenhua, but Ryo and Shenhua form a pair (probably not an erotic, too...) and only as a pair can unlock the remaining secrets.

I have gone way further from the current subject... but what I'm saying originates in it. But, as always, just imagining how the world of Shenmue and the situation of it, is.

Other random thoughts that came to mind...
Baihu is an entity that has been resurrected from the past? Just like how the Chi You monster will be resurrected? So the pair of Mirrors can bring things of the past into the present? The key to open the gates of Heaven and Earth, therefore of time and place? Remember; in the Chawan Sign, Heaven is Time, and Earth is Place (furthermore, Dragon is Actions and Comrade is Person).

Lan Di wants the powers of Shenhua for the Chi You. It seems that means that Chi You may have been resurected but it's powerless, and the only source of power that can fit with it, is Shenhua's, because she bears ancient powers (and Chi You is an ancient being, from the past)...
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby Latin King » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:40 am

Wow, very interesting idea! I can say that I've never thought about it like that. I always felt that Yu Suzuki just wanted to make Bailu Village feel extremely remote and isolated, so he played with the real life area of Guilin a bit and made it as isolated as possible, even though in reality it was more populated and advanced. I personally don't feel Shenhua is a ghost, but there is indeed something very special about her.
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby BlueMue » Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:05 am

Those are some incredible theories right here Giorgio! I love reading these kind of things and think about the Shenmue saga in new ways. While I still have something against super natural things in Shenmue, something like you described would work really well if it's implemented right. And I'm sure Yu Suzuki has written things the right way.
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby Chaikilla » Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:38 pm

Very interesting theory, it certainly got me thinking.

Is it safe to say that Shenhua is just as important to Shenmue's story as Ryo? Because I've always thought that Shenhua and Ryo will get split up again only this time we'll get to play as both characters and complete their individual stories. This would be a good way to separate the magical/realistic elements of the story. Shenhua's story can take a more magical route, with her throwing hadoukens and stuff as she trawls through rural China. While Ryo's story can stay on a more realistic path.
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Re: Shenhua is a ghost

Postby Snoopbob2006 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:43 am

Thought Provoking theory there Jeff I like it.
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