Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby sand4fish » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:03 pm

JohnBlack wrote: You just dont get what im trying to say. Mini-games is good thing, i really like it and so. But the goals in kickstarter campaigin is sonething im always dont like in crowdfunding games. Like for 4m we get expended village, so if campagin will stop at 3m$ for example, so we get small not finished village, not like its planned to be or what?


Yep, if we do not get it past $4 mil or even beyond we will get an incomplete game. We'd probably get the villages and all, but with less interactions, less npcs, less details... basically less immersion. That's the nature of working under minimum budget. BUT IF this campaign surpasses the $4mil and beyond, I'm very confident Sony will chip in with the big bucks, hopefully double the amount of the Kickstarter amount, and then Yu Suzuki would have a quality budget to work with.
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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Taren Fox » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:32 pm

How about some Shenmue III DLC called "Shenmue 1.5" or "Shenmue 2 - The Lost Chapter" where we get chapter two of the story and get to experience the fight with Chai on the boat.
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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Miles Prower » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:08 pm

I can completely understand where people are coming from about Ryo and Shenhua's character models - Ryo's face in particular...but the environment looked so beautifully gorgeous that I was still excited and hyped...so it did the job for me...but yes, I hope the models are not representative of the final version, but I seriously doubt they will be. It is early days for the project yet - it could well be the difference between the initial Saturn version of Shenmue and the final Dreamcast version. I have faith this will be a fantastic game.
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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Jack » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:11 pm

I'm glad there are people besides me that have concerns over that trailer. One of my biggest fears is that this is going to be a 'design by committee' game. Yes, technically this is a kickstarter but it also is a console exclusive game and sony has a vested interest in making sure the game sells better then the first two. I worry that this means they'll push to cut certain aspects of the game in exchange for aspects that they hope will make the game sell, like getting rid of the more realistic character models (one of the best features in shenmue imo) in favor of a glossy, more westernized look in order to make the game more 'visually appealing'.

I also worry about whether Yu Suzuki now has drastically different ideas as to what to do with the Shenmue series. When he uses words like 'instant mastery' it frustrates me as that to me was the furthest thing from what I thought the concept of the original games were. The martial arts in the original games were supposed to be a slow source of discovery and enlightenment for the main character, and I thought it would be the biggest contributor to Ryo's development as a character over the course of the series. Anything that's 'instant' goes completely against that. I know that people revere Yu Suzuki as some sort of infallible game designer, but the fact remains that he is very much human, and 15 years is a long time to stew over the same ideas. It may be that his ideas as to what makes Shenmue good no longer match my own at all.

Because there is so much hype here and so such potential for things to go wrong, i refuse to get my hopes up until some more concrete details begin to emerge

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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Sonoshee » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:17 pm

My thoughts on Shenmue 3's funding:

- Sony and these "other" sources of backing will foot the bill for the game.

- Kickstarter donations have shown that there's enough interest and will fund extra's (as listed in the stretches)
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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Luke_09 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:26 pm

Sonoshee wrote: My thoughts on Shenmue 3's funding:

- Sony and these "other" sources of backing will foot the bill for the game.

- Kickstarter donations have shown that there's enough interest and will fund extra's (as listed in the stretches)


I do agree with you and fingers crossed there is a lot of extra funding from 'other sources'.

However, it does worry me that some of the Stretch Goals do appear to give the impression that there isn't a huge amount of funding outside of KickStarter. For example, quite a few of the Stretch Goals appear to be pretty fundamental and basic aspects to the game that should be in a Shenmue game as a bare minimum i.e. not as 'additions'. For example: mini-games, battles, character perspective system; surely all of those should make up the bare minimum of any Shenmue game. Those were all features that were crucial and unique to the Shenmue experience as a whole.

It just all seems a tad contradictory. You would have thought, that if Yu had secured a significant amount of funding outside of KickStarter (from the likes of Sony or other publishers), then why is there a Stretch Goal for something as basic as Battles or mini-games?
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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Sonoshee » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:54 pm

Luke_09 wrote:However, it does worry me that some of the Stretch Goals do appear to give the impression that there isn't a huge amount of funding outside of KickStarter. For example, quite a few of the Stretch Goals appear to be pretty fundamental and basic aspects to the game that should be in a Shenmue game as a bare minimum i.e. not as 'additions'. For example: mini-games, battles, character perspective system; surely all of those should make up the bare minimum of any Shenmue game. Those were all features that were crucial and unique to the Shenmue experience as a whole.


I believe there will be all of those in the main game as is. As you stated already, these were always the basis for a Shenmue game. It couldn't work without them.
The KS stretches seem so far only to be covering expanded areas and events/battles within them, aside from things like foreign subtitles.
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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Sonoshee » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:58 pm

Btw, these two comments were just recently posted on the KS page:

Q: Will the Graphics be Improved?

A: The screenshots and images posted are still in the early stages of development, and will continue to be improved. Please help spread the word on all of your social networks so that we can deliver a Shenmue 3 that lives up to its legacy!



Q: Can you make an open world game for just $2 million?

A: No, we cannot make an open world game for $2 million. Shenmue will be produced using both the funds raised from the Kickstarter and through other funding sources already secured by Ys Net Inc. We are very sorry, but due to contractual obligations, details of outside investments will not be disclosed.

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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby sand4fish » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:04 pm

Tbh I didn't want Shenmue 3 to go the Kickstarter route, and I really expected a company like Microsoft or Sony to make a partnership with Sega and bank Shenmue 3 all by themselves. As successful as Kickstarter games projects go, none of them felt like a triple A game in the end. But now that Shenmue 3 is a reality (thank god for that) we all must make the best out of this situation and turn the entire thing into the best Kickstarter game ever!
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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Tycho » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:36 pm

Taren Fox wrote: How about some Shenmue III DLC called "Shenmue 1.5" or "Shenmue 2 - The Lost Chapter" where we get chapter two of the story and get to experience the fight with Chai on the boat.


That sounds like it could be a great idea. I was thinking before that since they're going to work on a trial for the new game, maybe the trial could be chapter 2. We would finally play through it and they could use it to show off the new gameplay without us having to play through the same sort of scenario in the main game. But potential DLC sounds like a better idea, since they're probably going to do a "What's Shenmue 3?" type of demo anyway.
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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Kenny » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:51 am

Jack wrote:I also worry about whether Yu Suzuki now has drastically different ideas as to what to do with the Shenmue series. When he uses words like 'instant mastery' it frustrates me as that to me was the furthest thing from what I thought the concept of the original games were. The martial arts in the original games were supposed to be a slow source of discovery and enlightenment for the main character, and I thought it would be the biggest contributor to Ryo's development as a character over the course of the series. Anything that's 'instant' goes completely against that. I know that people revere Yu Suzuki as some sort of infallible game designer, but the fact remains that he is very much human, and 15 years is a long time to stew over the same ideas. It may be that his ideas as to what makes Shenmue good no longer match my own at all.


People change over time.

I bet Miyamoto's Super Mario Bros. now would've been different from then. Maybe not totally, but definitely different. And the man's been shit on for years for doing things too differently, causing a massive hole in SEGA's wallet. I'm sure that rubbed off on him big time.
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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby NeoShredder » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:05 am

Guys, remember Kid Nocon's work in the Unreal engine from last year:

phpBB [video]


This is what Shenmue, made in Unreal Engine 4, COUILD look like and this was a WIP fan-game recreation.
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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Luke_09 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:13 am

NeoShredder wrote: Guys, remember Kid Nocon's work in the Unreal engine from last year:

phpBB [video]


This is what Shenmue, made in Unreal Engine 4, COUILD look like and this was a WIP fan-game recreation.


That looks stunning.

I hope Yu and his team have seen that video because THAT is what Ryo's character model SHOULD look like!!
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Re: Some concerns over the Kickstarter video and vision

Postby Three Blades » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:28 am

Yeah, now THERE'S a recognizable Ryo!
I know the S3 trailer was just a placeholder, but, as such, it makes you wonder why they didn't just use a spruced-up passport model or even the one from that racing game that came out a few years back? Why bother making a new, quickly thrown-together Ryo (whose face looks like the guy from prison break), when they already had a perfectly good one that looked much better to begin with?
I'm not complaining, I know they'll change it for sure, I just wonder why they went and made a new one, just for the trailer, even though they already had a much better one they could have used, it would have saved them the extra work, AND would have looked better.
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