Unrealistic costs has me worried

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Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby Gutts » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:49 am

Ok first let me say I'm a huge Shenmue fan. It's what drove me to buy a DC back in 2000 even though I had been a die hard PS1 fan (Something I still don't regret). And I was as charged as anyone when the announcement came at E3. But something about this Kickstarter is really worrying me.

Fair enough we knew 2 million was just a signal of intent to be brokered as part of negotiations with possible investors. And I have no problem with companies adding extra stretch goals once it's been funded. But in this instance the goals just seem completely over estimated. Not to mention there seems to be a rather large chunk of the game essentially hinging on extra funding. This would make sense if the game was completely reliant of KS. But given KS is supposedly a "hype booster" and the core money is coming from elsewhere. How can entire area's of the game be solely the responsibility of KS?

One idea is the money the company thought they would have based on the 2 million raised didn't get finalized. Which in essence would kill the project anyway given the cost of previous titles (I know they don't have to build engine etc. But games and promo cost a hell of lot more today). Are at least force them to break the 11 chapter story into smaller chunks. Possibly using an episode based model.

This is also supported by the utterly nonsense goal cost set for foreign language subtitles. Take Portuguese for example.

$900,000 - Quoted
$0.15c - Exaggerated cost per word of translation - http://search.proz.com/employers/rates
350 words per page times exaggerated amount of pages 5000 (This is more that all 5 game of thrones books together)
So that's 350(w)*5000(p)=1,750,000(w)
Then $0.15*1,750,000=$262,500

That's nearly 3.5 times as much as a pretty liberal cost assessment. This really has me worried about either a)Do they really have a firm understanding of what this game will cost. And b)Do they really have anywhere near enough to make something on a scale a true sequel deserves. Honestly if this game gets cancelled I would be pretty hurt. Its most definitely rated in my top 5 all time franchises. But I would be equally hurt if they make a poor man's excuse for Shenmue III to just cash in on the hype.

What do you guys as hardcore fans of the series think? I'm I seeing something that isn't there?
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby BlueMue » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:53 am

The strech goals don't represent the actual costs of the features attached to them. Please keep this in mind.

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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby Peter » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:56 am

I'd say everyone shares the same concerns and also other concerns they have also, but we just have to keep believing that as much can be squeezed out of whatever money is made from the campaign.
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby mjq jazz bar » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:07 am

BlueMue wrote: The strech goals don't represent the actual costs of the features attached to them. Please keep this in mind.

Exactly.

The Portuguese goal, for instance, is meant to persuade Brazilian/Portuguese fans to help fund the game. It's another marketing tactic. It doesn't seem to be working, but that's all it is AFAIC.

I don't understand why people feel they need to make threads to express opinions and observations that have been made dozens of times in other threads.
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby Shadow2222 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:08 am

Gutts wrote:
This is also supported by the utterly nonsense goal cost set for foreign language subtitles. Take Portuguese for example.

$900,000 - Quoted
$0.15c - Exaggerated cost per word of translation - http://search.proz.com/employers/rates
350 words per page times exaggerated amount of pages 5000 (This is more that all 5 game of thrones books together)
So that's 350(w)*5000(p)=1,750,000(w)
Then $0.15*1,750,000=$262,500

That's nearly 3.5 times as much as a pretty liberal cost assessment.


I just wanted to touch on this portion of your post. I assume that you got the $900,000 number from the gap between the $5.10 goal (subtitles) and the $6.0 goal.

You are actually misunderstanding it. The subtitles are guaranteed as a goal once the $5.10 is reached. In other words, it is only a $100,000 gap between the previous stretch goal and the subtitles. This means that they are budgeting, at most, $100,000 for it (it may turn out to be less), should the stretch goal be reached.
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby Doom_Infinite » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:25 pm

BlueMue wrote: The strech goals don't represent the actual costs of the features attached to them. Please keep this in mind.

Normally they should. This shows Awesome Japan's incompetence at this. Even if Suzuki is the one who made those strech goals, Awesome Japan should be advising him properly in how to really do them, they are the PR team after all.


It should have had stuff like.

4 m Village 1 size increased
4.5m NPC dialogue and interactions increased
5 m Battle system enhanced
5.5m Village 1 mini games increased
6 m Village 2 size increased
6.5m Additional NPC dialogue and side quests
7 m Improved battle motions
7.5m Village 2 mini games increased
etc etc

Somewhere further done they would have had the subtitles languages, and maybe Orchestral music, retro music tracks, extra flash back modes or stuff like that. The main game should always come first!
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby long lightbulb » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:46 pm

Gutts wrote: Ok first let me say I'm a huge Shenmue fan. It's what drove me to buy a DC back in 2000 even though I had been a die hard PS1 fan (Something I still don't regret). And I was as charged as anyone when the announcement came at E3. But something about this Kickstarter is really worrying me.

Fair enough we knew 2 million was just a signal of intent to be brokered as part of negotiations with possible investors. And I have no problem with companies adding extra stretch goals once it's been funded. But in this instance the goals just seem completely over estimated. Not to mention there seems to be a rather large chunk of the game essentially hinging on extra funding. This would make sense if the game was completely reliant of KS. But given KS is supposedly a "hype booster" and the core money is coming from elsewhere. How can entire area's of the game be solely the responsibility of KS?

One idea is the money the company thought they would have based on the 2 million raised didn't get finalized. Which in essence would kill the project anyway given the cost of previous titles (I know they don't have to build engine etc. But games and promo cost a hell of lot more today). Are at least force them to break the 11 chapter story into smaller chunks. Possibly using an episode based model.

This is also supported by the utterly nonsense goal cost set for foreign language subtitles. Take Portuguese for example.

$900,000 - Quoted
$0.15c - Exaggerated cost per word of translation - http://search.proz.com/employers/rates
350 words per page times exaggerated amount of pages 5000 (This is more that all 5 game of thrones books together)
So that's 350(w)*5000(p)=1,750,000(w)
Then $0.15*1,750,000=$262,500

That's nearly 3.5 times as much as a pretty liberal cost assessment. This really has me worried about either a)Do they really have a firm understanding of what this game will cost. And b)Do they really have anywhere near enough to make something on a scale a true sequel deserves. Honestly if this game gets cancelled I would be pretty hurt. Its most definitely rated in my top 5 all time franchises. But I would be equally hurt if they make a poor man's excuse for Shenmue III to just cash in on the hype.

What do you guys as hardcore fans of the series think? I'm I seeing something that isn't there?

We have already been told MULTIPLE times that Kickstarter is not a hype booster. The majority of funds are coming from the campaign, and going all to Ys Net.

I think it's clear there is s large amount of ill-informed potential backers out there still. What a shame, considering all that has been revealed since the misinformation spread almost two weeks ago.
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby KidMarine » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:52 pm

The Kickstarter almost certainly won't make $10 million, but if they add a PayPal option after it finishes Shenmue fans will keep funding. That's the advantage of a dedicated fanbase.
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby Mr357 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:03 pm

You have to remember that funds raised through Kickstarter are heavily taxed, and on top of that Kickstarter also takes a cut. Them reaching $10 million doesn't mean they have $10 million to work with.

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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby Doom_Infinite » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:47 pm

Paypal also takes a cut, and technically if you're using Paypal in large amounts it's also taxed.
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby Reprise » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:54 pm

Doom_Infinite wrote: Paypal also takes a cut, and technically if you're using Paypal in large amounts it's also taxed.


Yep. Kinda makes me laugh some people refuse to use Kickstarter for whatever reason. But oh well, I'm sure Paypal will become an option.
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby Riku Rose » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:37 pm

^Can't speak for anyone else but my own issue with Kickstarter isn't how much of a take they get but some of their terms and conditions.
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby Jeff » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:55 pm

As I mentioned before, I think this Kickstarter is a down payment on a venture capital loan. Their past statements alude to it.
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby Doom_Infinite » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:20 pm

Jeff wrote: As I mentioned before, I think this Kickstarter is a down payment on a venture capital loan. Their past statements alude to it.

What exactly alluded to that?
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Re: Unrealistic costs has me worried

Postby Reprise » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:25 pm

Riku Rose wrote: ^Can't speak for anyone else but my own issue with Kickstarter isn't how much of a take they get but some of their terms and conditions.


Yeah, to each their own to be fair. I backed Bloodstained via Paypal and Shenmue 3 is the first time I've actually backed something via Kickstarter.
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