The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby Peter » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:02 pm

Bellator! Legend!

Get in the reunion topic in GD!
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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby Miles Prower » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:13 pm

Good to see ya back Bellator :)
And gawd yes, let's try and be positive here, people. Yes, the KS could be being handled a lot better, but we've still got a little while to go yet...

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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby Tomato Convenience Store » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:32 pm

Doom_Infinite wrote: I agree. The thing is the PR is vital to this and they started with a bang by opening infront of millions of viewers live at Sony's E3 conference, what happened afterwards was a completely unworthy follow up to such a fantastic start.

Bloodstained brought in a lot of outside the community gamers by making the Kickstarter a fantastic experience, making backers feel how unique and historical that moment was. This KS gives us very dry updates and has not done a good job on making the stretch goals exciting or hyped, for the most part people just feel discouraged that they're out of reach.


To get this out of the way, I agree that Awesome Japan is doing a poor job, but what's a realistic expectation for how much extra funding a flawlessly run kickstarter campaign can generate for Shenmue III? I don't know the answer (and to be fair, no one else does), but I just can't see newcomers putting in anything above the $5-30 tiers, and I think it's even more realistic that they'll wait until the games release since they haven't played S1 and S2. Do people think a well run campaign would get us to $11M by the end of the kickstarter?

I think the best option, as mentioned by many before, is to have a paypal option post-kickstarter (and it's really the only option to reach that amount of crowd-sourced funding). There are a bunch of fans who will contribute monthly, it will allow newcomers the time to catch up on S1 and 2 (especially if there's ever a re-release), and progress and previews of the game can be shown to newcomers, which might get them to donate to the development of the game.

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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby ys » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:37 pm

I maybe haven't been as negative as others but find quite a few things not very positive either. You mentioned a few things that I had also been thinking about.

Tomato Convenience Store wrote:2) The success of the kickstarter is even more impressive when you consider Shenmue III is only on two platforms.

Yeah, and the game is also from a period when gaming wasn't as mainstream so sales weren't as they are now. It pissed me off when I saw comments about Shenmue's awful sales. What they didn't think about is that games selling over 1 million were seen as best-selling games. Even huge games like MGS3 and God of War were in a 2-4 million range on PS2. The Platinum series for example started from 400 000 copies sold.

3)The number of backers != total number of pre-orders or sales.

Yeah, Divinity : Original Sin had around 20 000 backers and sold 500 000 from what I read. This being an old school turn based RPG.

4)I would argue that while the kickstarter announcement at E3 helped the overall numbers, it also made us reach a saturation point much sooner.

Likely. And the fanbase is maybe more invested compared to other a few other franchises on Kickstarter leading to this peak.

5)It's fine if we don't hit $10M - they'll figure something out. The success of this campaign could help ease investor risk, so it's possible the money is covered elsewhere (a post KS paypal option probably covers the rest, honestly).

I was also thinking that they maybe could figure something out during development. Be it Paypal or maybe some more support from Sony or other investors if they're close to a huge milestone. As Jeff pointed out, it's possible that they get funding depending on the Kickstarter amount.

All in all, what bugs me is not the fact that it's bad in itself but that there might be more potential.
PS Hi Bellator.

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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby shredingskin » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:46 pm

Tomato Convenience Store wrote: what's a realistic expectation for how much extra funding a flawlessly run kickstarter campaign can generate for Shenmue III?


Pretty much that. I think that the most game backers were 85k for DFA, that the game tier was 15 bucks with the documentary included. From a really well known developer, for a genre that a lot of people like (mostly pc gamers) and being the first high profile game on KS. Even very well known series as megaman and castlevania got round 60k backers.

I know it's harder to market a third game that follows a story, but even without a video explaining what shenmue is, it's not like people new to the series can't find an online review.

Probably some people will back the last day though.
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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby Tomato Convenience Store » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:47 pm

ys wrote:
Yeah, and the game is also from a period when gaming wasn't as mainstream so sales weren't as they are now. It pissed me off when I saw comments about Shenmue's awful sales. What they didn't think about is that games selling over 1 million were seen as best-selling games. Even huge games like MGS3 and God of War were in a 2-4 million range on PS2. The Platinum series for example started from 400 000 copies sold.




Agreed! Shenmue III will be going from an install base of around 7M on the DC to probably around 30-35M units on the PS4 by the time it's released, let alone however many PC gamers would get the game. I always thought the sales analysis of Shenmue was kind of difficult to gauge and it's a special case since the platforms were split (and the xbox version was a dc port) and the dc didn't have a strong install base. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the highest selling game in the series, either.
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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby Peter » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:50 pm

2 words - Yu Suzuki.

That's who's hands this project is in. With the original members of the Shenmue series to date. This will look like a Shenmue game. Feel like a Shenmue game. Sound like a Shenmue game. Have environments like a Shenmue game.

I don't give a shit what the final amount is, the money will come from somewhere. The litmus test of the Kickstarter has been successful, with all sorts of records set once again by the franchise. We are all gonna set Shenmue 3, with boxes of Shenmue goodies delivered to our door to boot. Id day it's a safe assumption that Sega will want to grab the easy money and release Shenmue and Shenmue HD in 2016. I'd hazard a guess it's already been green lit. Why wouldn't it?? Sega have money there waiting to be given to them!

It's a fucking fantastic time to be a Shenmue fan, the best time ever! From Kikizo articles, to darkness. From "we'll see" and "I think Sega will let me make it". From photos of Suzuki looking tired and dejected, to photos of forklifts and him walking onto the Sony stage to the fanfare of Sedge Tree. Fuck "we only made 8.5k", and "ooohhh well Bloodstained....". Fuck some goober acting a pillock on camera for an hour!

Sorry for the language but rant over!

It's Shenmue 3!!!!!

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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby Riku Rose » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:25 pm

I'm in the Mittz camp of I want a great game rather then a crap one that finishes the story. The story of Shenmue isn't something I would rate as one of the series highlights. For a long time I didn't want SEGA to even make the game as based on their recent output I had doubts that it would be something enjoyable. As we don't know if Sony are putting in $10, $10k or $10 million I really don't think we'll know what kind of Shenmue game we will have until trailers and previews start hitting the internet. Even if it looks like something I'm not overly fond of I'll still try it out mainly for curiosity like when I went and see Terminator Salvation.

The Kickstarter itself hasn't been a huge success really. The announcement was as it had the biggest crowd this project could ever get watching it. Someone said that the Kickstarter page could say nothing but 'Shenmue 3' and got the same amount and I really agree. People have listed all the cock ups so I won't do it again but I just find it amazing that when you have a Kickstarter that lasts 31 days that there hasn't been more immediate action about anything, even Yu should be at these guys to sort it out but as far as we can see his along for the ride. Sure this is the 3rd game in the series but then you have the stretch goal of the cinema shorts, explain what they are and how they will help newcomers. If you aren't even going to attempt to bring in new fans then don't bother hiring a team and put up the kickstarter yourself.

I was waiting for Paypal to pledge and was going to pledge a decent amount but after watching how useless Awesome Japan are I'm not trusting them with anything. As it stands I'll walk into a shop or pre order the game online. It wouldn't surprise me if people started getting the wrong rewards or ones that have changed entirely when the post comes in 2017. I can imagine them adding a physical reward tier and everyone who go's for it get's the game about 2 weeks after the release date.

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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby ys » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:03 pm

Riku Rose wrote:I'm in the Mittz camp of I want a great game rather then a crap one that finishes the story. The story of Shenmue isn't something I would rate as one of the series highlights.

Likewise. I always thought that, even years before the announcement. The details and pacing contribute to the story.

even Yu should be at these guys to sort it out but as far as we can see his along for the ride. Sure this is the 3rd game in the series but then you have the stretch goal of the cinema shorts, explain what they are and how they will help newcomers. If you aren't even going to attempt to bring in new fans then don't bother hiring a team and put up the kickstarter yourself.

Either he doesn't really know what to expect from Kickstarter. Or he's very confident due to the extra funding. That's one of my biggest criticisms though : they're not really trying to bring in new people which is needed at this point. They should explain more and maybe tell how certain game features stand out compared to other games.

It wouldn't surprise me if people started getting the wrong rewards or ones that have changed entirely when the post comes in 2017.

Would they still be on the payroll during development? I first thought that their job ended after the Kickstarter but maybe not. YS Net should be able to update during development themselves though. And maybe they or Shibuya could take care of sending rewards?

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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby mrandyk » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:49 pm

The launch of the KS campaign was a huge success. Everything since has been appalling.
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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby Reprise » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:20 am

Riku Rose wrote: I'm in the Mittz camp of I want a great game rather then a crap one that finishes the story.


That's fine, but let's wait the 2 and a half years before we start proclaiming the game "crap" before knowing any details and just because we haven't instantly raised more than $10M.

I'm not saying that's necessarily what you are saying, but some people seem to have that attitude.

Personally, I'd rather have Shenmue 3 and it be crap than not have Shenmue 3 at all, unless it's an absolute broken mess. Why? Because unless it's technically crap (unplayable, broken, glitchy), a game's quality is subjective and down to personal opinion and I want us, the fanbase to get what we always wanted.

Pre-ordering the game and especially backing the kickstarter is a risk and that is also down to the individual to decide if they want to back the game and take the gamble.
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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby Shenhua-Nani? » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:35 am

I think some people are retracting their pledges, we are losing money today lol
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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby Reprise » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:18 am

Shenhua-Nani? wrote: I think some people are retracting their pledges, we are losing money today lol


Probably people who are complaining about Awesome Japan and then those same people will complain about how much Awesome Japan suck because funding is going down :roll:
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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby Hyo Razuki » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:25 am

Reprise wrote:
Shenhua-Nani? wrote: I think some people are retracting their pledges, we are losing money today lol


Probably people who are complaining about Awesome Japan and then those same people will complain about how much Awesome Japan suck because funding is going down :roll:


:rotflmao: Probably true.

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Re: The KS is a huge success and we shouldn't be discouraged

Postby Peter » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:36 am

I'm going to withdraw my pledge. Awesome Japan 1 and 2 were amazing games. But I am getting the vibe Awesome Japan 3 just won't be good at all.

And I haven't even pledged yet.

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