Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much?

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby ShinChuck » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:48 pm

joka wrote: This new age of Kickstarter and social media has always had me a bit worried as when you need fans to fund the game pre-dev there's a danger that they expect to be involved and you feel the pressure to let them be.

As long as fans don't impact on the story then that's the main thing for me- even passively.

The poll being a good example- so for instance Yu changing how the relationship between Ryo and Nozomi ends because she came out highly liked in fan polls. I'd rather if they're not meant to be that's how it stays.

Influence of mini games, bonus content, even design (to a certain degree) I'm not so worried about but I have faith in Yu's vision and commitment to that to not be too worried about it!


At the same time, I can see the other side of the argument: follow your vision to an extreme, and you end up with Mass Effect's color-coded endings that left virtually nobody happy. I'd much rather a good ending that wasn't originally intended over an awful ending (or twist, or plot arc, or whatever) that "matches their vision".

An ending where Yu has his dream relationship of Ryo and Fusako Kondo won't do it for the community, hahah. A Shenmue III that makes nobody happy does nothing for anybody.

And it can go the other way too, I know: fans might clamor for Nozomi and Ryo, and we might end up with a changed ending that is really forced and silly, and we would have been better off going with Yu Suzuki's vision.

I think there's a pleasant middle ground, and I feel like Yu can hit it. I want him to feel like we trust him enough to stick to his guns, and I want him to be able to realize, when confronted with a strong recommendation that Fusako Kondo isn't the way to go, he will trust us enough to consider changing it. I really feel like the Shenmue relationship between creator and community is symbiotic at this point.
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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby The_Intruder » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:56 pm

Above poster: What is Fusako Kondo?
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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby ShinChuck » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:47 am

The_Intruder wrote: Above poster: What is Fusako Kondo?


http://shenmue.wikia.com/wiki/Fusako_Kondo

Was just using a silly example for my post, heheh.
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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby Sonoshee » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:42 am

Well, Cedric Biscay retweeted me, so...

Cedric Biscay retweeted you
6h: Fans backed Shenmue 3 to see YOUR vision Yu! @yu_suzuki_jp @CedricBiscay

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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby Rikitatsu » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:19 pm

Sonoshee wrote: Well, Cedric Biscay retweeted me, so...

Cedric Biscay retweeted you
6h: Fans backed Shenmue 3 to see YOUR vision Yu! @yu_suzuki_jp @CedricBiscay

Thank god for Cedric.

This gave me an idea:

We contact Cedric and ask him to suggest to Suzuki a Backer-Poll, the poll would ask something along these lines: "Do you prefer if I shape Shenmue 3's around the fans' ideas and feedback, or would you rather have me go with my original vision for the game?"

Should make Suzuki understand what the fans want from him... We want Suzuki's Shenmue 3.

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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby Himuro » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:20 pm

I bloody love Cedric.
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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby Amir » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:33 pm

Rikitatsu wrote:
Sonoshee wrote: Well, Cedric Biscay retweeted me, so...

Cedric Biscay retweeted you
6h: Fans backed Shenmue 3 to see YOUR vision Yu! @yu_suzuki_jp @CedricBiscay

Thank god for Cedric.

This gave me an idea:

We contact Cedric and ask him to suggest to Suzuki a Backer-Poll, the poll would ask something along these lines: "Do you prefer if I shape Shenmue 3's around the fans' ideas and feedback, or would you rather have me go with my original vision for the game?"

Should make Suzuki understand what the fans want from him... We want Suzuki's Shenmue 3.


There's a few areas though where fan input may be helpful, like discussing control scheme options, or maybe gauging interest for a few non-essential mini-games. But for the most part, yes, I think Suzuki-san should stick to his vision.

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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby 0rganiker » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:39 pm

It's funny, I was going to post a thread exactly like this yesterday but didn't want to take away from the excitement of the campaign ending.

This worry is legitimate, and it doesn't help that everything we hear from Yu is a translation because a lot of what he's been saying seems to suggest he will change things based on fan input.

You can see how bad this can turn out just by looking at the Star Wars prequels. It's fairly apparent that Lucas let the outside world's perception of his work affect how he went with the prequels. He ended up emphasizing certain characters that were fan favorites, even though it really didn't make sense in the context of the story. This is the worry.

I don't think anyone wants to play a game that doesn't show us anything new. One of the reasons I love the Shenmue series is because it takes me to places I wouldn't go to based on my own thoughts. I don't want to see an echo of my own vision when playing the game, I want to see what it was supposed to be.

There's also the fact that just because a lot of fans want it doesn't mean that it's the right course of action. As a teacher, I get a lot of feedback from students, and sometimes they'll have a consensus about a suggestion that I unquestionably know would be detrimental to their education. The problem is that THEY aren't teachers, so while I still listen to and value their opinions, I also know that in some cases they simply don't know what they're talking about.

You can sort of see this when it comes to Yu's reaction to Nozomi's popularity. I think the poll question was worded poorly, and should have been more along the lines of, "which character would you like to see more of?" The way Yu talks about that poll, it makes me think that was his actual question. His response about Nozomi's popularity is basically "it doesn't really make sense to bring her back." Since he knows this, it's kind of disappointing for him to see how many people like her because he can't use that for his next game.

All that said, I don't think Yu is really the type of person to let others affect his vision to a great degree. Just to be cautious, though, I feel like maybe we should find a way to make it clear that we don't want this game warping into some sort of fanfic.
Last edited by 0rganiker on Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby Rikitatsu » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:44 pm

Amir wrote:
Rikitatsu wrote:
Sonoshee wrote: Well, Cedric Biscay retweeted me, so...

Cedric Biscay retweeted you
6h: Fans backed Shenmue 3 to see YOUR vision Yu! @yu_suzuki_jp @CedricBiscay

Thank god for Cedric.

This gave me an idea:

We contact Cedric and ask him to suggest to Suzuki a Backer-Poll, the poll would ask something along these lines: "Do you prefer if I shape Shenmue 3's around the fans' ideas and feedback, or would you rather have me go with my original vision for the game?"

Should make Suzuki understand what the fans want from him... We want Suzuki's Shenmue 3.


There's a few areas though where fan input may be helpful, like discussing control scheme options, or maybe gauging interest for a few non-essential mini-games. But for the most part, yes, I think Suzuki-san should stick to his vision.

I'm fine if it's stuff like Camera and Controls, but when it comes to story, world, characters, etc... I'd like for Suzuki to keep his vision intact.

@0rganiker: Well put!
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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby code l name » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:50 pm

There is nothing worse than fan-service. I absolutely loathe it.

I'm a big proponent of the auteur theory and whether it matches our expectations I strongly believe Suzuki should follow his original vision and blue-print with Shenmue III. I do not want fans having input on the story, characters or narrative. Community input can be used in other elements but I hope Suzuki stays true to his intended designs and mechanics he wants to see.

Designing by community is always an awful idea in media entertainment and you get a watered down, middle of the road product. I would hate to see something similar with Shenmue III.
Last edited by code l name on Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby R3N » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:03 pm

As long as he listen to our suggestion to make Shenmue III feels like Shenmue and Shenmue II I am fine with it. I really don't want to be disappointed and play Shenmue III and the game feels nothing like the past games too many new features could ruin this.Also I don't like at all having fans been part of the game at all. They should have leave it with collection items alone.It just interferes with the experience in my opinion. I hope there is a version with removed "fans" material in the game. It makes the game looks "indie" and not professional. I don't mind if people can enjoy been in the game did but I hope only the backers release have that "fan" ingame material. I don't want that at all. I want a 80's simulation. I don't want modern age real people been in the game.
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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby killthesagabeforeitkillsu » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:11 pm

We know nothing about the game. Our impact will be more about esthetics than substance.
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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby Rikitatsu » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:50 pm

killthesagabeforeitkillsu wrote:Our impact will be more about esthetics than substance.

You sound sure.

Honestly these kind of posts doesn't do us any favors, we shouldn't baselessly assume that everything is gonna be A-OK when it might not be.

Suzuki went out of his way to say he will take a different approach to game design than he did in the past, and he will build it with the fan's feedback in mind.

He didn't say anything about aesthetics or substance.
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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby Amir » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:55 pm

Lucas/the Star Wars prequels is a bad example, because that was a case of him having no one say "no" to him and the end result being poor. The original Star Wars script was a boring mess, and the final film was saved by editors including his then-wife Marcia Lucas. It was collaboration with people like Lawrence Kasdan that made Empire Strikes Back and to a lesser extent Return of the Jedi worthy (or in the case of ESB, superior) sequels. I rank Suzuki-san much more highly as a artist than Lucas. While I don't seem as a talentless hack who got lucky like many do, I really don't think Lucas is anywhere near as great as Suzuki-san.

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Re: Anyone worried that Yu might listen to the fans too much

Postby Sonoshee » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:58 pm

Rikitatsu wrote:
We contact Cedric and ask him to suggest to Suzuki a Backer-Poll, the poll would ask something along these lines: "Do you prefer if I shape Shenmue 3's around the fans' ideas and feedback, or would you rather have me go with my original vision for the game?"


Well we shouldn't even give the man a choice :twisted:
Maybe a tweetathon with a tag like #Yu'sVision or something? Tell him exactly how the fans feel about him not diverting at ALL from his original ideals.
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