Racism

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Postby danny » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:33 am

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Re: Racism

Postby Axm » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:38 am

danny wrote:
Research consistently finds that people from ethnic or racial minority backgrounds tend to view police more negatively than those from nonminority backgrounds.


Previous research has shown that Blacks are more likely than Whites to hold unfavorable opinions of criminal justice agencies in America, but the literature has rarely examined whether social class also affects these opinions.

Gee I wonder why? Maybe when you have generations of family subjugation, imprisonment and prejudice that might affect your opinion? Whoa..
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Re: Racism

Postby Hyo Razuki » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:14 am

Awesome Japan is also some kind of argument bait, dude. But Yu Suzuki, Shenmue 3, advanced battle system, character perspective system, rapport system! :D \:D/ \: :king:
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Re: Racism

Postby Riku Rose » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:27 am

The idea that overnight all racism could go away is just stupid and unrealistic. There will always be idiots in the world and sadly we have to slowly educate them or just wait for there to be so few that their views are just laughed at by 99% of people. You only have to look at how America dealt with race 50-60 years ago and compare it to now to see these issues are heading in the right direction. Sadly it's a slow process but it's one that we have to go through for the ultimate end goal with any minority issue. It's another case where playing the blame and guilt game just makes the majority roll their eyes and puts back any real effort people make. My father's best friend growing up was a black guy and this was in London in the 60's and 70's which was a time people where more recently racist. My dad has told me about times when other black people would say they where being mistreated because they where black and my dads friend would inform them it's actually because they're a cunt.

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Re: Racism

Postby muhu » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:36 am

Riku Rose wrote:Sadly it's a slow process but it's one that we have to go through for the ultimate end goal with any minority issue.


Absolutely, agreed.

The underlying decrease of racism is definately there but it's just going to be a very long journey for the world to actually be able to sustain a much more justified world for everyone to live in where people aren't pre-judged for any racial reasons. We know that not the entire population of the earth can achieve this but there can be a difference in nations apart.
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Re: Racism

Postby PILMAN » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:09 pm

I take a neutral standpoint, there are the racists, and then you have social justice warriors, and both are equally bad.

In the United States, there tends to be a obsession on what someone's background is, people are afraid that if they are not seen as different, they they will be viewed as one of the individuals of privilege, and so it is easier to proclaim a victim status. This is why you see so many individuals claiming to be Cherokee Indian or some other Native American ancestry or associate as one of the persecuted, this becomes problematic because these individuals expect others to feel shame or more sensitive that it is a civic duty and they tend to take the fun out of everything by reminding Americans and attempting to claim that we are just simply immigrants who stole the land and oppressed everyone as some form of guilt complex.

On the other hand, racism is becoming an issue as well, it's taken a different shape and form that has infiltrated every aspect of society, the police, government, judges, politicians, doctors, military, etc. most are keeping under the radar and acting as lone wolves and they are fueled purely by their fundamentalist ideology and simply are unwilling to listen to a intellectual rational discussion, this applies to all colors that they simply want to segregate or oppress anyone who doesn't share their same genetics.

Myself, my wife is Colombian, she is half Amerindian and Spanish, and I am half German via my mother and half Jewish from my father who is of Levantine descent. We have encountered the issue from all sides because society hasn't yet figured if we are white or mixed or some other group, on one side, I represent the elite and the top and end up getting thrown in as part of the problem before my mouth has ever opened, on the other hand, because I don't tend to look like the typical American nor does my wife, sometimes we get thrown in as part of the minority since I tend to have more of a Italian or Greek look and she has a obvious mestiza look, this attracts unpleasant comments sometimes towards my wife and I. We have heard everything from "go back to where you came from" to "speak English!!!" Or "you are stealing our jobs!"

In colombia, race was never an issue at all, you are just Colombian, it exists to a entree, mainly in the economic sector however it's not as big of a deal as it is in the United States, South America is not as politically correct as the U.S. Which pushes a extremist agenda on both sides.

Honestly I dislike both racism from all sides and safety net equality where one group is given more privileges than another. Being stuck in the middle ticking off both sides is another story altogether.
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Re: Racism

Postby Wude-Tang Clan » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:49 pm

You know, the more I learn of this 'racism', the less I like it. It's almost as if there's no redeeming qualities to being a racist at all.

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Postby danny » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:52 pm

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Re: Racism

Postby PILMAN » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:59 am

danny wrote:
PILMAN wrote: I take a neutral standpoint, there are the racists, and then you have social justice warriors, and both are equally bad.
In the United States, there tends to be a obsession on what someone's background is, people are afraid that if they are not seen as different, they they will be viewed as one of the individuals of privilege, and so it is easier to proclaim a victim status. This is why you see so many individuals claiming to be Cherokee Indian or some other Native American ancestry or associate as one of the persecuted, this becomes problematic because these individuals expect others to feel shame or more sensitive that it is a civic duty and they tend to take the fun out of everything by reminding Americans and attempting to claim that we are just simply immigrants who stole the land and oppressed everyone as some form of guilt complex.


I actually kind of sympathize with the idea that non-Native Americans (mainly immigrants from the continents Europe - mostly colonialists, Africa - mostly slaves, Asia - mostly immigrants; For ease of writing, I will refer to them as "foreigners" in the following) leave America and give it back to the Natives.
(Think the same with Australia and the Natives there.)

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Want to know Wude's take on that issue (as he claims to be a 100% Native American).

Of course, it is not convenient for all these foreigners in America to go back to Europe, Africa & Asia. Many are pretty assimilated to the "colionalist culture", namely "American English", "American culture" (I sound like a SJW/Marxist here, I know), or mixed race etc. However, if Israel claims that Palestine was actually theirs, and the Arabs "steal" it from them, then the handing back the American land to the Natives is logically consistent, because again, they demand Israel back from the Arabs (Palestinians) too.
(As far as I am concerned with the topic: the Jews were driven out by their home lands from the Romans and are now distributed across several foreign countries - the diaspora).

But then, there is the "out of Africa" theory (OAA). Now the question which arises is the following: when all humans originated from one place, then how do we determine the original ownership of land? Are the original owners those who came first and settled there? What about the case, if the original settlers move to another land centuries later for example? Thus the ownership vanishes then? Those who lived for centuries in a place and moved away centuries later could do the same like the Jews, namely, say that actually the land was theirs.
Is there even something like an universal ownership right (like "we came first, it's now ours")?

On the other hand, racism is becoming an issue as well, it's taken a different shape and form that has infiltrated every aspect of society, the police, government, judges, politicians, doctors, military, etc. most are keeping under the radar and acting as lone wolves and they are fueled purely by their fundamentalist ideology and simply are unwilling to listen to a intellectual rational discussion, this applies to all colors that they simply want to segregate or oppress anyone who doesn't share their same genetics.


Just as a note or supplement: racism is not only a European thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_supremacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan

Myself, my wife is Colombian, she is half Amerindian and Spanish, and I am half German via my mother and half Jewish from my father who is of Levantine descent. We have encountered the issue from all sides because society hasn't yet figured if we are white or mixed or some other group, on one side, I represent the elite and the top and end up getting thrown in as part of the problem before my mouth has ever opened, on the other hand, because I don't tend to look like the typical American nor does my wife, sometimes we get thrown in as part of the minority since I tend to have more of a Italian or Greek look and she has a obvious mestiza look, this attracts unpleasant comments sometimes towards my wife and I. We have heard everything from "go back to where you came from" to "speak English!!!" Or "you are stealing our jobs!"


Sounds like they mixed you guys up with "Mexicans".

In colombia, race was never an issue at all, you are just Colombian, it exists to a entree, mainly in the economic sector however it's not as big of a deal as it is in the United States, South America is not as politically correct as the U.S. Which pushes a extremist agenda on both sides.


PC-ness is just another extreme with Orwellian tendencies. You are not the only one:

Richard Dawkins wrote:As a pejorative, "Politically Correct" has lost its bite. It's now a cliché. What we have is an Orwellian (but unofficial) "Thought Police".


https://twitter.com/richarddawkins/stat ... 7172853760

Honestly I dislike both racism from all sides and safety net equality where one group is given more privileges than another. Being stuck in the middle ticking off both sides is another story altogether.


Yay, equality (same opportunities for all)!

Wude-Tang Clan wrote: You know, the more I learn of this 'racism', the less I like it. It's almost as if there's no redeeming qualities to being a racist at all.

Crackers.


Cultural appropriation right there! :P


I agree with you racism is not just whites on other minorities, and you bring up some interesting views on Israel which I hope to cover as well.

It sounds like the theoretical arguements that have been brought up are about indigenous rights vs colonialist rights. If we were to determine who is indigenous, this would create many problems historically, and I may unintentionally offend someone, however the purpose is hopefully to bring education and knowledge and a intellectual conversation about this.

If we go back far enough, some case examples are Japan, there are two ethnic groups I am aware of known as the ryuukan and Ainu who claim to be indigenous and existing prior to the modern Japanese people, this seems to still be a hot political issue, as I'm not a expert, I won't speak on this issue but it seems to be enough of an issue that the Ainu do claim to be the original people, however I'm sure many Japanese also likely have Ainu ancestry as well.

If we look at China, there is a debate to indigenous people such as Tibetans, those of Hong Kong who do not want mainlanders in Hong Kong, and Taiwan who also wants no part of China though this seems to be more political than indigenous rights.

In the case of Europe and the Middle East, it also becomes quite complicated, Russia was settled by Slavs who came from modern day Belarus, and if I recall, Vikings and the Russian language related to the Scandinavian languages, for a long time Russia was inhabited by indigenous scythians, tartars, Altaic, Yakut, and other Turkic tribes that were later conquered by Cossacks.

Much of Western Europe and Southern Europe had indigenous populations of basques who don't speak a indo European language, romania was colonized and at least partially influenced by the Roman Empire which conquered the dacians, Hungary seems to have some sort of hunnic influence and the language has some similiarites to Asian languages, large parts of the Middle East such as the levant, Mesopotamia and even North Africa had indigenous people such as Canaanites, Assyrians, Berbers or amazigh that were genetically and culturally replaced and influenced by the Arab culture, we don't know how much genetically but culturally it impacted it.

Overall, indigenous rights vs birth right is complicated.

Unfortunately other forms of racism exist, for example replacement theology groups such as the black Hebrew Israelites who claim to be the true Israelites, some times white supremacist movements like Christian identity who claim to be the true Hebrews, if you break it down, you get movements like the pan African movement, pan aryan movement and sooner or later, we find out that to every single group we are going to be hated by somebody no matter how you treat them. This is why I do not even get involved, there is literally no way to win a arguement even if facts or evidence are provided as individuals will continue to believe in what they believe.
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Re: Racism

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:57 pm

The white man is to blame for ALL the world's ills. The quicker he is brought to task, the better. [/SJW_26]

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Re: Racism

Postby Mr357 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:49 pm

It absolutely makes my blood boil when people claim that whites have it easy. How can that be true when multiple times in my life I've been turned down by colleges and employers because I'm a Caucasian male? How am I not the real victim of racism when I've seen first-hand others achieve my aspirations even though they were less qualified, simply because they're a "minority."

That being said, it's not something I cling to or bring up by my own initiative. Because I've put in the effort to make it so, I still have a great life and the same rights as any other American. Until that changes I'll be pretty content.

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Re: Racism

Postby Sonikku » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:29 pm

danny wrote:Show me evidence (studies, findings) that there is systematic oppression against blacks all across America, and I change my opinion. I am open to discussion.


https://www.americanprogress.org/issues ... ed-states/
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Postby danny » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:48 pm

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Re: Racism

Postby PILMAN » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:27 pm

I do not believe there is a issue of racism in the United States as much as there was in the past, I do think it still exists to a degree, but not to the extent that is being claimed.

The problem is the stigma of racism is always associated or tied in the media to people of European ancestry and rarely focus on racism from other groups which I find troubling.

Clearly we see the damage that a person who even uses a ethnic slur or racial slur on how it affects their career, just look at the recent story with hulk hogan, his entire career and history has been erased from the wwe over his use of a racial slur. It is not tolerated as much as it used to be. If you were to ask the majority of whites how they feel about racism, the vast majority reject it. If you were to go perhaps to an area that is less ethnically diverse in the Midwest or very rural areas of the south, then it will be more prevalent and open not just from white but from the various ethnic groups and races who tend to stick together with their own.

Honestly I have had more harassment in the streets of Chicago from the "black Hebrew Israelite" cult than any other group while they sat there screaming that I am a khazar or a Edomite and cursed while openly denying the holocaust and pushing for their racist agenda. I have on occasion run into white racists, I've also run into Hispanic racists, racism exists in all groups but it is no where near what people are making it out to be. Most of the issues that are probably being brought into the public eye are issues with police brutality which isn't limited to race, it's becoming an issue all over the U.S.

Issues that are probably being brought up is wealth inequality, and wealth knows no race, a ghetto and a trailer park can be equally poor, there are more whites on food stamps than other ethnic groups however the claim is that ethnic minorities tend to face higher rates of incarceration despite being a smaller percentage of the population. I highly doubt that has to do with someone's ethnic background but likely other factors such as the location, the types of crimes being committed out of opportunity, and gang on gang crime.

The reality is if people stopped worrying so much about race and think background and started thinking of themselves more so (if you are in the U.S.) as an American, then maybe these issues wouldn't exist.
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Re: Racism

Postby PILMAN » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:30 pm

Mr357 wrote: It absolutely makes my blood boil when people claim that whites have it easy. How can that be true when multiple times in my life I've been turned down by colleges and employers because I'm a Caucasian male? How am I not the real victim of racism when I've seen first-hand others achieve my aspirations even though they were less qualified, simply because they're a "minority."

That being said, it's not something I cling to or bring up by my own initiative. Because I've put in the effort to make it so, I still have a great life and the same rights as any other American. Until that changes I'll be pretty content.


I believe quotas and selection over ones background is wrong, and I do believe that a job should be based on skills and demand, not based on obligations.
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