A great idea for Shenmue 3(a tournament system)

[Zoltor]

Know what I would love, is if there was a optional tournament you can join(on a regular bases, but perhaps have some special side quests hidden within it as well). This would make a sweet alternative option to just practicing, you could regularly practice in a actual combat situation, not to mention this could be another way to make money, and win items/move scrolls.

[murdiaries]

That would be very awesome, but would require a good character editor and a good netcode investment to make it any interesting. Unfortunately I don't recall Yu saying anything about online multiplayer.

[Zoltor]

That would be very awesome, but would require a good character editor and a good netcode investment to make it any interesting. Unfortunately I don't recall Yu saying anything about online multiplayer.

You missed what I meant, I wasn't talking about a online, multiplayer feature, I'm talking about a well thought out, complex Arena type system.

[Shin Pan Tzee]

I'd love tournaments like that, but also simpler fight clubs, and punks trying to mug you on the street or bars ala Yakuza, all of which would build your reputation kinda like II, and make you earn money. Would be nice if the more advanced you are, tougher enemies would challenge you around the streets and in tournaments.

If you do a lot of fighting, it gets more complex and challenging, if you don't, you keep a normal difficulty throughout the game. Yu, as mentioned in the combat thread, doesn't want it to be too hard, so by doing that, people that love challenge and people that don't would be happy.

[Zoltor]

I'd love tournaments like that, but also simpler fight clubs, and punks trying to mug you on the street or bars ala Yakuza, all of which would build your reputation kinda like II, and make you earn money. Would be nice if the more advanced you are, tougher enemies would challenge you around the streets and in tournaments.

If you do a lot of fighting, it gets more complex and challenging, if you don't, you keep a normal difficulty throughout the game. Yu, as mentioned in the combat thread, doesn't want it to be too hard, so by doing that, people that love challenge and people that don't would be happy.

Yea, that would be great

[Shibiryo]

This is turning out to be more Sleeping Dogs than I thought.

[OL]

Isn't there a whole sub-plot in Shenmue 2 about not using martial arts just for show?
A tournament would be ever so slightly at odds with that lesson.

[Himuro]

Isn't there a whole sub-plot in Shenmue 2 about not using martial arts just for show?
A tournament would be ever so slightly at odds with that lesson.

Not necessarily. Technically, the monks at that martial arts temple are showing off by your definition because they're practicing in public.

It's all about intention.

If you go into martial arts tournament to test yourself, or to honor your style, how in the world are you showing moves off recklessly?

This is a lot different from living homeless as a street performer, and using your martial arts as a leech to your advantage to show off your moves instead of an honest living.

You also forget that in II, Ryo participates in public street fights and spars with Jianmin regularly in a public park.

You would be right, if Ryo went into the tournament with the mindset that he's the best, and that he needs to show that to the world, and that no one else can beat him, in a wild display of arrogance and hubris, which is something Ryo wouldn't do. But even then, Xiuying makes it clear that Ryo does not yet have all the Wude, so learning about them further in the journey seems a pretty natural step.

[OL]

You would be right, if Ryo went into the tournament with the mindset that he's the best, and that he needs to show that to the world, and that no one else can beat him, in a wild display of arrogance and hubris, which is something Ryo wouldn't do.

The thing is that a tournament, practically by definition, is meant foremost as a display of abilities and a way of determining the "best" in a specified field. It's a venue for people to show off, most often with some sort of prize for the winner. It's exactly the kind of thing that Jie speaks against. If your goal is simply to test yourself, there are other more humble ways to do it without needlessly showing off to an audience.
The examples you give don't really count because simply being in public doesn't automatically equate to showing off. The monks are in the process of training, and sparring with Jianmin isn't done for material gain or for the benefit of an audience, regardless of where it happens. Likewise, the part of Shenmue II where Ryo has to fight in a "tournament" of sorts against four different opponents doesn't count because he was working toward a very specific goal beyond the fights themselves. He would have preferred not to have to go through them.

What the topic post is proposing is simply a tournament that you can join at any time, partly to practice moves, yes, but also with the express intent to win things.
In the end, that's really no different from Zongquan smashing rocks for an audience to make some money. It's a showy display for material winnings.

A better alternative, and something keeping more in line with Jie, would be a simple martial arts school that you can always visit to spar with its students, maybe with various difficulties and tiers. It would beat the monotony of aimlessly punching and kicking in a parking lot, and it wouldn't be quite so boring (gotta keep a videogame fun, after all) as trying in vain to hit Jianmin. All the while, it wouldn't backpedal over the whole drawn-out wude portion of SII.
And it would also make a lot more sense for the backwater locations SIII will be taking place in.

[Himuro]

Tournaments only represent the "best" but joining one does not inherently make it a selfish act. I think building pride is important, having too much is a bad thing of course, but too little is just as bad. Testing ones skills against other masters shouldn't be considered inherently prideful an act, so long as one is going into with that in mind only. That's very different than trying to show off. Also, martial arts have a history of tournaments, and are a fundamental element of getting better.

*shrug*

[OL]

Also, martial arts have a history of tournaments, and are a fundamental element of getting better.

That's actually one of the reasons I've always thought the lessons taught in Shenmue were a bit odd to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the stuff I was referencing, I'm just saying if that's the setup they've established in the games so far, it'd be silly to ignore it all for the sake of adding certain gameplay features, just so players always have the option of beating someone up and getting something out of it.

But eh, with the huge amount of time that's elapsed since the last game, I'm halfway expecting a lot of "modern gaming" deviations like that anyway.

[Himuro]

Also, martial arts have a history of tournaments, and are a fundamental element of getting better.

That's actually one of the reasons I've always thought the lessons taught in Shenmue were a bit odd to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the stuff I was referencing, I'm just saying if that's the setup they've established in the games so far, it'd be silly to ignore it all for the sake of adding certain gameplay features, just so players always have the option of beating someone up and getting something out of it.

But eh, with the huge amount of time that's elapsed since the last game, I'm halfway expecting a lot of "modern gaming" deviations like that anyway.

What if Ryo has to enter into a tournament to infiltrate Guilin chapter of Chiyoumen? How's that any different than fighting Stunt, et al in order to infiltrate the Yellow Head?

[OL]

That's what I was talking about earlier when I mentioned the four street fights. He'd be doing it for a just cause. Therefore it'd be perfectly in line with Jie.
But the topic post was talking about a tournament from the standpoint of a basic gameplay feature, something you can enter at any time for rewards (sort of like in the Yakuza games). That is what I was saying would be against the wude.

[Himuro]

That's what I was talking about earlier when I mentioned the four street fights. He'd be doing it for a just cause. Therefore it'd be perfectly in line with Jie.
But the topic post was talking about a tournament from the standpoint of a basic gameplay feature, something you can enter at any time for rewards (sort of like in the Yakuza games). That is what I was saying would be against the wude.

Oh, I see what you mean...

[Fenix]

Isn't there a whole sub-plot in Shenmue 2 about not using martial arts just for show?
A tournament would be ever so slightly at odds with that lesson.

Ryo got his scar in a Karate tournament.

He could participate so save a friend.