Shenmue 3 can't promise 60fps but can promise sexy girls

[Monkei]

[...] But y'know... Yu Suzuki is nearly 60 years old, and is very, very out of touch with current industry trends and thinking (by his own admission, so that's not me disrespecting him.)

This is demonstrated by his description of the "A.I. fighting" system which, really, is just industry standard fare. Context sensitive attacks. Hardly revolutionary, but from his point of view it seems groundbreaking and different. I don't think we can or should really expect progressive thinking from the guy. [...]

Yeah, I've been thinking that, too. Him not playing games or keeping track of industry trends and developments comes with pros and cons, the latter of which you're describing one of the bigger ones. You can ignore the industry and develop an idea on your own, but somebody else might have had that idea years before without you even knowing.

Concerning the sexy girls though, Yu doesn't mention anything like that in the interview if I'm not mistaken. That's made up by DualShockers*, so the problem there is not Yu's potentially-not-so-progressive thinking, but bad journalism.

What trend ? To clickbait ? [...]

That would be gaming journalism trends. Anonymous was talking about game development trends, whole other topic.


EDIT: *Didn't pay attention and confused DualShockers and MCVUK. Sorry DualShockers.

[Axm]

That's made up by dualshockers

Please don't mistake DualShockers for them.

[Monkei]

Sorry, I meant MCVUK. Sites like that belong into the trash bin.

[killthesagabeforeitkillsu]

[...] the problem there is not Yu's potentially-not-so-progressive thinking, but bad journalism.

The problem is that someone needs to spread propaganda and Shenmue happened to be in the middle of it.

[Three Blades]

Not really, Kojima has always done sexual innuendos. And one of the bigger characters in his new game was Quiet.

Yup, as I said, that mentality is hindering the games of many western developers. Japanese ones mostly don't bow down to it. I don't play MGS, but I'm glad they didn't modify Quiet to appease whiners. This is an example that western developers should follow.

[Kiske]

I'm sorry, but I see Yu not playing games and keeping up with trends as only a good thing.

I want Shenmue 3 to feel consistent with the style of the first 2 games. I agree with Yu that it's better to have your own vision and not let yourself become to heavily influenced by other games.

[Anonymous81]

I have said all I wish to or will say on the subject. Carry on.

Hey, you mind me asking you a question? It's completely fine if you don't, given that you have said all that you wanted on the subject but I'm just curious.

Do you feel Shenmue so far did have bad representation of the fairer sex? Personally I feel there's a good range in Shenmue. I mean the women are all different from each other. The only one that might possibly be a danger so far is Joy, but it's not impossible to imagine the daughter of a well to do business empire get involved with the wrong crowd. Everything about her, from her scant clothing to her over the top dyed hair, screams a desire to make an impression. I also think that some women are like that, not every one of course, but some may be. Teenagers especially can be.

What are your thoughts on Shenmue's depiction of women so far? (It's hard to talk about this new ChiYouMen leader since we haven't really seen her yet properly) But only if you don't mind me asking, of course.

Also, every time I see your avatar I want to play Skies of Arcadia again.

I don't personally mind the depiction at all. But then, I'm male, and not really the one who would be impacted by the depiction. Even among women, not everyone will mind it either. But for those who do, I advocate their right to voice concerns about it - just as I advocate Yu's right to depict his characters however he wants - I actually feel Shenmue has some decent to good depictions of women personally. But I think a lot of women would like to see characteristics other than simply "strong and beautiful" in video games.

Someone (can't remember who) once said something (poorly paraphrasing from memory) along the lines of, "Batman gets to be strong, handsome, scarred, dark, conflicted, a brilliant detective, intelligent, haunted, and arguably psychotic. But somehow just being 'strong' is considered enough when it comes to most female characters." I may not personally feel that way about Shenmue or other games, but I can totally understand some women feeling that way.

The reason I don't want to talk about it further though, is because I've been through it many times and been called a "white knight" or a "social justice warrior" for my trouble. So while that may or may not happen here, I just don't have the emotional or mental energy to engage with the topic and really discuss it frankly. Online debates never result in anyone changing their views anyway (not that I want to change anyone's views) and it's such a controversial issue that my social anxiety and depression don't really allow me to brave the storm of discussion for long before I feel overwhelmed and sad, so I just don't usually.

So with that said, I will bow out of the discussion again.

P.S. I play SOA at least once every couple of years on Gamecube. Wish they'd release it again, in any form.

[fittersau]

Shenmue in particular is full of strong female characters. Nozomi, Joy, Fengmei, Niao Sun Xiuying and Shenhua.. there's hardly a guy to be seen in many cases lol.

Shenhua in particular is so central to the core story of Shenmue and she exemplified a grace and purity that you simply couldn't have in a male character.

Pretty tiring isn't it.. all this click bait trying to farm our passion...

Out of those Nozomi would be considered the archtype "weak" emotional girl since she dotes on Ryo and needs saving. But at the end, she knows her love is unrequited thus decides her own destiny as does Ryo. So she's not so weak after all.

The other obvious target is Joy for her overt sexuality, however that comes with a strong and independent personality who is street wise and feared by men in her community. She is a leader, smart and sexy. So again no leg to stand on.

Xuiying is beautiful, sexy, gentle, motherly, strong and commanding. She would also kick the protagonist, Ryo with the drop of a leaf.

The portrayal of women in Shenmue is far from condescending and Shenmue does not warrant this incessant sniping by people who never took the time to play let alone understand Shenmue.

[fittersau]

Concerning the sexy girls though, Yu doesn't mention anything like that in the interview if I'm not mistaken. That's made up by DualShockers*, so the problem there is not Yu's potentially-not-so-progressive thinking, but bad journalism.

While I don't have the full audio or transcript, when Suzuki was explaining the new combat move the translator was fairly accurate with conveying his words. There's no reason to believe DualShockers added the word "sexy" to Suzuki's dialogue.

NiaoSun is sexy, voluptuous and by all accounts a strategist. So what if she has cleavage? *rhetorical*

Sexy != Sexist

[fittersau]

I don't personally mind the depiction at all. But then, I'm male, and not really the one who would be impacted by the depiction. Even among women, not everyone will mind it either. But for those who do, I advocate their right to voice concerns about it - just as I advocate Yu's right to depict his characters however he wants - I actually feel Shenmue has some decent to good depictions of women personally. But I think a lot of women would like to see characteristics other than simply "strong and beautiful" in video games.
...
So with that said, I will bow out of the discussion again.

There is nothing inherently wrong with what you're writing. In fact these are noble aspirations for anyone seeking suffrage.

But please do not fall in the trap of a headline crying sexist / misogynistic game when in context for Shenmue, these are adamantly untrue. They have not been sexist in the past and I don't doubt Suzuki will remain consistent with his portrayal of women for the future.

While "strong and beautiful" may be present in Shenmue, it is certainly not sexist as portrayed by the gaming mainstream press.

Moreover, if marginalizing was an angle to take, then Shenmue, it's fans and it's creator are the ones constantly being marginalized.

[LucBu]

I have said all I wish to or will say on the subject. Carry on.

Hey, you mind me asking you a question? It's completely fine if you don't, given that you have said all that you wanted on the subject but I'm just curious.

Do you feel Shenmue so far did have bad representation of the fairer sex? Personally I feel there's a good range in Shenmue. I mean the women are all different from each other. The only one that might possibly be a danger so far is Joy, but it's not impossible to imagine the daughter of a well to do business empire get involved with the wrong crowd. Everything about her, from her scant clothing to her over the top dyed hair, screams a desire to make an impression. I also think that some women are like that, not every one of course, but some may be. Teenagers especially can be.

What are your thoughts on Shenmue's depiction of women so far? (It's hard to talk about this new ChiYouMen leader since we haven't really seen her yet properly) But only if you don't mind me asking, of course.

Also, every time I see your avatar I want to play Skies of Arcadia again.

I don't personally mind the depiction at all. But then, I'm male, and not really the one who would be impacted by the depiction. Even among women, not everyone will mind it either. But for those who do, I advocate their right to voice concerns about it - just as I advocate Yu's right to depict his characters however he wants - I actually feel Shenmue has some decent to good depictions of women personally. But I think a lot of women would like to see characteristics other than simply "strong and beautiful" in video games.

Someone (can't remember who) once said something (poorly paraphrasing from memory) along the lines of, "Batman gets to be strong, handsome, scarred, dark, conflicted, a brilliant detective, intelligent, haunted, and arguably psychotic. But somehow just being 'strong' is considered enough when it comes to most female characters." I may not personally feel that way about Shenmue or other games, but I can totally understand some women feeling that way.

The reason I don't want to talk about it further though, is because I've been through it many times and been called a "white knight" or a "social justice warrior" for my trouble. So while that may or may not happen here, I just don't have the emotional or mental energy to engage with the topic and really discuss it frankly. Online debates never result in anyone changing their views anyway (not that I want to change anyone's views) and it's such a controversial issue that my social anxiety and depression don't really allow me to brave the storm of discussion for long before I feel overwhelmed and sad, so I just don't usually.

So with that said, I will bow out of the discussion again.

P.S. I play SOA at least once every couple of years on Gamecube. Wish they'd release it again, in any form.

Oh, I ain't going to call you a SJW or anything like that. If you feel compassionate about how it may affect others there's nothing wrong with that. I don't see you throwing abuse or anything. Wasn't Elaine, (can't quite remember the spelling of that name) the tai chi expert in Shenmue 2, a fairly good portrayal of a 'normal' woman?

Come to think of it, there was actually a fair lot of NPCs which also seemed 'fairly adjusted/unsensationally designed'... I suppose. Never really thought about it... Yeah I agree with you. I think Shenmue's pretty good with that kind of thing.

In regards to SoA: I remember the game actually having a feasible difficulty level as well. Like it was a fair challenge, although the dungeon grinding was on another level. God, I remember looking for that earth dungeon after the tribal village. It took me so long to find the two markers. One I found straight away but the other... man I was just sailing around for about 5 hours of world map grinding to find it. I thought ship battles and the sense of freedom were excellent in Skies. I loved the VMU stuff as well. So good. God I want to play it now.

But please do not fall in the trap of a headline crying sexist / misogynistic game when in context for Shenmue, these are adamantly untrue. They have not been sexist in the past and I don't doubt Suzuki will remain consistent with his portrayal of women for the future.

I think Anonymous81 is okay with Shenmue's depiction of women for the most part. I don't think you have to be concerned.

[Hyo Razuki]

Then again, Shenmue's story takes place in the 1980's, a time when the very notion of political correctness was basically unheard of outside North America.

And "sexy girls" in video games? Who above the age of 15 cares?

[Monkei]

Concerning the sexy girls though, Yu doesn't mention anything like that in the interview if I'm not mistaken. That's made up by DualShockers*, so the problem there is not Yu's potentially-not-so-progressive thinking, but bad journalism.

While I don't have the full audio or transcript, when Suzuki was explaining the new combat move the translator was fairly accurate with conveying his words. There's no reason to believe DualShockers added the word "sexy" to Suzuki's dialogue.

NiaoSun is sexy, voluptuous and by all accounts a strategist. So what if she has cleavage? *rhetorical*

Sexy != Sexist

Right, Suzuki said Niao Sun is sexy and cruel, and Shenhua is cute. He used those words. True. What I meant was that MCVUK turned that into an awful headline which has nothing to do with what was actually said anymore. "Shenmue 3 can't promise 60fps but can promise 'cute' and 'sexy' girls". That's rearranging of actual facts to a degree that you can call it made up.

Oh well, doesn't matter too much, I guess.

[Three Blades]

And "sexy girls" in video games? Who above the age of 15 cares?

That doesn't really make sense to me. It would be like saying,

"Cool cars in videogames? Who above the age of ___ cares?"
or
"Bad-ass-looking weapons in videogames? Who above the age of __ cares?"

I mean, of course we want stuff/people in our videogames to look cool and/or idealized. That includes the female characters. I don't see how it's any different from anything else. Honestly, to me, someone saying "lol u care about sexy girls in videogames!!1", it just comes off as trying to overcompensate to make themselves sound cooler than they actually are.
Of course I like my VG women to be sexy. I also like my VG vehicles to look cool and bad-ass, VG weapons to look awesome, VG heroes to be idealized versions of heroic warriors, and environments to be colorful, vibrant, and alive.
What's wrong with wanting stuff to look good?

[Kiske]

I haven't kept up with most of the S3 news lately, so forgive me if this was already confirmed before, but I think the most interesting thing mentioned in the topic post is that Lan Di will indeed be a boss fight in the game. Suzuki describing characters as "cute" or "sexy" is practically a non-issue to me, but confirmation that we'll actually be challenging the main villain of the series this time around? Gold.