Ryan Payton on Back in my Play podcast, talks Shenmue/II/III

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Re: Ryan Payton on Back in my Play podcast, talks Shenmue/II

Postby Spaghetti » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:25 am

Ryan was gone long before Halo 4 shipped. This was ultimately because of butting heads with Microsoft over the direction they were going in. (There's some info about this in the podcast, he was kind of put out of pasture by MS in the same way Yu was by SEGA)

For MGS4, Payton was hired specifically by Hideo Kojima to help Westernise certain elements of the game, such as camera and control functionality. If you ask me, MGS4 sucked for several other non-camera/control related problems.

The all-important fact here is that he's only part of the advisory board, he's not a Producer like he was on MGS4, and not a creative director like he was on Halo 4. He meets with Yu every two months, and seems to have helped when putting the Kickstarter plan together as well as having some input on the overall game design. He's acting as a guiding hand, effectively.

SMDzero wrote:Where can i listen to this? i can't pay since i gave all my $$ to the KS

What were the particulars of the revolution vs evolution debate??? For the fans?? Is SIII gonna be a proper game or a love letter?

The non-Patreon version of the podcast is currently on the Dojo's YouTube page.

It's obviously going to be a proper game, and the actual details of evolution v revolution are scant, but it seems Ryan wanted to keep Yu focused on enhancing Shenmue's existing systems and not going overboard with new ideas that may not end up fully developed. We know we're still getting new mechanics though, so don't think new ideas have been tossed overboard because of this.
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Re: Ryan Payton on Back in my Play podcast, talks Shenmue/II

Postby SMDzero » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:32 am

Spaghetti wrote: Ryan was gone long before Halo 4 shipped. This was ultimately because of butting heads with Microsoft over the direction they were going in. (There's some info about this in the podcast, he was kind of put out of pasture by MS in the same way Yu was by SEGA)

For MGS4, Payton was hired specifically by Hideo Kojima to help Westernise certain elements of the game, such as camera and control functionality. If you ask me, MGS4 sucked for several other non-camera/control related problems.

The all-important fact here is that he's only part of the advisory board, he's not a Producer like he was on MGS4, and not a creative director like he was on Halo 4. He meets with Yu every two months, and seems to have helped when putting the Kickstarter plan together as well as having some input on the overall game design. He's acting as a guiding hand, effectively.

SMDzero wrote:Where can i listen to this? i can't pay since i gave all my $$ to the KS

What were the particulars of the revolution vs evolution debate??? For the fans?? Is SIII gonna be a proper game or a love letter?

The non-Patreon version of the podcast is currently on the Dojo's YouTube page.

It's obviously going to be a proper game, and the actual details of evolution v revolution are scant, but it seems Ryan wanted to keep Yu focused on enhancing Shenmue's existing systems and not going overboard with new ideas that may not end up fully developed. We know we're still getting new mechanics though, so don't think new ideas have been tossed overboard because of this.



Well it seems that Suzuki wants Shenmue 3 to be as revolutionary as the original while Ryan wants to make Shenmue 3 a nostalgic retro game for the fans. Hopefully they at least met half-way and that Shenmue 3 has something truly new to add to the gaming landscape.
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Re: Ryan Payton on Back in my Play podcast, talks Shenmue/II

Postby Spaghetti » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:50 am

SMDzero wrote:Well it seems that Suzuki wants Shenmue 3 to be as revolutionary as the original while Ryan wants to make Shenmue 3 a nostalgic retro game for the fans. Hopefully they at least met half-way and that Shenmue 3 has something truly new to add to the gaming landscape.

I think they did meet a compromise in the end, given the structure of the gameplay mechanic stretch goals on Kickstarter. It seems like a balance between a big new idea like the Character Perspective System, and improvements/renovations on the existing mechanics like the Rapport System/Skill Tree/Advanced FREE Battle upgrades.
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Re: Ryan Payton on Back in my Play podcast, talks Shenmue/II

Postby Sappharad » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:06 pm

Scrounder wrote:Pretty sure he was the one who encouraged action over stealth with MGS4.

I haven't played it, but the game his company produced after he left Microsoft was a Stealth title.

I first heard of Ryan Payton when I bought the collector's edition of MGS4 when it came out. There was a section of the making-of documentary on the bonus disc that came with the game about him. From what I remember of that documentary, he did work on a lot of the localization specific stuff like working with the voice actors, but I don't think his purpose was to change the overall nature of the game. If the western-control scheme is one of his main influences like Spaghetti suggests, then it seems like his involvement was for a lot of good things. After playing 4 and 5, the freedom with the camera is so nice that I miss it when going back to the older ones.

After listening to the entire Podcast (minus the Q&A, because I'd rather donate $5 and listen to it once than pay a recurring fee) I guess what I took away from it is that Ryan really put a lot more effort into making Shenmue 3 happen than I originally realized. We knew from the start that he encouraged Suzuki to do it, but not about how much time he spent so he could bring Yu back up to speed with the industry. Now that we know Ryan is mostly to thank for the Kickstarter happening, I'm kind of curious how and when Cedric got his company involved. That would be an interesting story to hear.

I hope Ryan has luck on his Shenmue Saturn search, it would make a really nice kickstarter update to learn more about that (or other unused Dreamcast content like Miao Village) if they need a padding month to keep some things secret for a while.
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Re: Ryan Payton on Back in my Play podcast, talks Shenmue/II

Postby johnvivant » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:13 pm

i'm extremely grateful to Ryan for his involvment in making shenmue 3 a reality. lots of really interesting info. thanks
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Re: Ryan Payton on Back in my Play podcast, talks Shenmue/II

Postby Amir » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:29 pm

Was great listening to this podcast, put down a dollar for the Patreon version, was worth it. It's clear now that without Ryan we would most likely not have Shenmue III. Still, I'd be curious to hear what some of the more "out there" ideas were that Payton and Suzuki clashed over, though I'm sure the reality of a constrained budget would have seen Suzuki adopt Payton's more conservative approach eventually. I would still love to see a Shenmue IV with a larger budget where Suzuki can implement more of his outlandish ideas, it's up to us to make Shenmue III a success.
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Re: Ryan Payton on Back in my Play podcast, talks Shenmue/II

Postby The_Fuzileiro » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:58 pm

I was surprised that he had to show to Yu Suzuki some "actual" games, to kind let him "aware" of what the industry turns out to be. And the first game he quote was Heavy Rain, the game I consider the second most brilliant story I ever saw in a video-game ( first is Shenmue, of course! ).
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Re: Ryan Payton on Back in my Play podcast, talks Shenmue/II

Postby Spaghetti » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:48 pm

The_Fuzileiro wrote: I was surprised that he had to show to Yu Suzuki some "actual" games, to kind let him "aware" of what the industry turns out to be. And the first game he quote was Heavy Rain, the game I consider the second most brilliant story I ever saw in a video-game ( first is Shenmue, of course! ).

A lot of big game developers don't actually play games, believe it or not (schedules likely don't really allow for it anyway).

I think Ryan met Yu at the height of his "Japanese mobile dev hell" phase (2010/2011 going by what Ryan says), so I'm not surprised if he wasn't too clued in on the industry. I think we can attribute Yu appearing more in public since then as an attempt to catch up with what the industry is doing, but also generally to meet people like Cedric, Mark Cerny, Gio Corsi, and Adam Boyes discreetly.

That's not to say Yu doesn't have his finger on the pulse. He predicted the hardware architecture of the new consoles closely mimicking PC long before they were revealed, and has generally always been known as a forward thinker. I do think he probably slipped out of it after leaving SEGA, and I wouldn't be surprised if he genuinely didn't care anymore.

That's not the case now, thankfully. He's well aware of the stakes, and in some weird way is kind of enjoying the pressure to prove himself all over again.
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Re: Ryan Payton on Back in my Play podcast, talks Shenmue/II

Postby Scrounder » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:54 am

Spaghetti wrote: Ryan was gone long before Halo 4 shipped. This was ultimately because of butting heads with Microsoft over the direction they were going in. (There's some info about this in the podcast, he was kind of put out of pasture by MS in the same way Yu was by SEGA)

For MGS4, Payton was hired specifically by Hideo Kojima to help Westernise certain elements of the game, such as camera and control functionality. If you ask me, MGS4 sucked for several other non-camera/control related problems.

The all-important fact here is that he's only part of the advisory board, he's not a Producer like he was on MGS4, and not a creative director like he was on Halo 4. He meets with Yu every two months, and seems to have helped when putting the Kickstarter plan together as well as having some input on the overall game design. He's acting as a guiding hand, effectively.


This is some interesting information, thanks for clearing it up!
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Scrounder has received a thanks from: Spaghetti
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