Ryo's face

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: Ryo's face

Postby jasonorme666 » Mon May 22, 2017 9:00 pm

Himuro wrote:
jasonorme666 wrote: I think it's a problem with technology advancing so much in the time Shenmue has been absent that it's hard to capture the look of a very old looking character model and still try to make it look good with modern graphics and keep its characteristics.


Why are you posting Pac Man? Pac Man has had that design on the right for like 30 years dude.


Yes, I'm well aware of Pac-Mans history. It was merely food for thought.

Esppiral wrote: Sega did a great job transitioning old ps2 models (desings) into more modern engines and you can still tell it is the same character.


The thing is, those character models have transitioned from PS2 to PS3 and then to PS4 to look THAT good.
The newer characters in Yakuza are rendered from real actors faces, whereas the old characters were "made up".
And while SEGA did a great job, you can see that characters like Kazuma and Majima are a bit more "cartoony" than some of the other models in the later games.

Shenmue will be skipping a few gens of consoles, and Shenmue III will no doubt use real actors for facial motion capture which leads existing characters like Ryo and Ren needing far more work to "fit in".
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby Himuro » Mon May 22, 2017 9:47 pm

How is it food for thought? I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say and it's not making much sense.
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby ChiefNeo » Mon May 22, 2017 10:37 pm

Himuro wrote: How is it food for thought? I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say and it's not making much sense.



It's an example of pixel art transitioning to a fully realized concept in 3d. It's a pretty stark, yet effective way to make it clear that visualization can change drastically with technology.
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby Himuro » Tue May 23, 2017 1:05 am

It's still a bad example because that's just Pacman character art. In actual Pacman games he still looks like the one on the left. And as said, the one on the right has been represented in Pacman character art for 30 years.

Here's how Pacman looks in a modern Pacman game.

Image

I'm not seeing it. Pacman is Pacman. He says the character for Pacman has changed but within gameplay it hasn't at all.

Even then, the comparison doesn't apply since Shenmue wasn't made with pixel art and we have examples both in this thread and via Kid NoCon's HD work that Ryo translates to modern graphics.

Essentially, the point makes no sense within the context of Shenmue and the character model of Ryo. The conclusion that old game characters don't translate as technology grows seems to be reaching at best especially for Shenmue.

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Re: Ryo's face

Postby ConanTheKing » Tue May 23, 2017 1:45 am

I think Crash Bandicoot has the same issue.

When the N-Sane trilogy was revealed there was a lot of discussion about how he looks. It felt off for many fans but to keep up with the technological changes his appearance had to alter somewhat and for so many years everyone developed their own ideal version of a modern Crash Bandicoot that the reveal just could not match the variety of expectations.

Some characters like Lara Croft get away with it as there have been gradual changes throughout rather than a jump from PS1 era Lara Croft to PS4 era Lara Croft.

EDIT: Regardless, I hope Ryo's face gets a new revision for Shenmue 3.
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby Himuro » Tue May 23, 2017 2:59 am

I don't think the problem with Crash is technology. I think the problem is the design. There's no reason he needs to have fur for instance. They could have went the Sonic route and instead gave him actual fur. Terrible design decision.
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby fittersau » Tue May 23, 2017 3:44 am

Esppiral wrote:Oh and by the way that's the level of care a Shenmue Remaster should get, anything less than this will extremely dissapoint me.
Ysn net should ask SEGA to take care of the charecter models, they have done a great jon with Yakuza Kiwami.


Sorry mate, I think you will be disappointed.

But yes, Sega should do the character models, they've done such a great job for Kiwami. But I don't think Nagoshi will allow anything Shenmue to be down in Sega while he's boss.
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby mjq jazz bar » Tue May 23, 2017 10:33 am

Why would Nagoshi feel that way?

Didn't he work on Shenmue?
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby Himuro » Tue May 23, 2017 10:42 am

Yes
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby jasonorme666 » Thu May 25, 2017 6:10 pm

Himuro wrote: It's still a bad example because that's just Pacman character art. In actual Pacman games he still looks like the one on the left. And as said, the one on the right has been represented in Pacman character art for 30 years.

I'm not seeing it. Pacman is Pacman. He says the character for Pacman has changed but within gameplay it hasn't at all.

Even then, the comparison doesn't apply since Shenmue wasn't made with pixel art and we have examples both in this thread and via Kid NoCon's HD work that Ryo translates to modern graphics.

Essentially, the point makes no sense within the context of Shenmue and the character model of Ryo. The conclusion that old game characters don't translate as technology grows seems to be reaching at best especially for Shenmue.


I think you may have completely over analyzed my post. Glad I didn't post a dank meme.
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby Yokosuka » Tue May 30, 2017 3:05 pm

Himuro wrote:
mjq jazz bar wrote: Esppiral's post is what I've been worried about.

Why are they having so much trouble doing even that?



Because they haven't gotten started on making the models final models and we haven't seen real footage of the game in two years?

Honestly, this:

Image

Is the perfect Hazuki Ryo for me. If the one in III looks nearly as good as this, I'll be satisfied.


Shenmue Online is better. This one has the nose of Michael Jackson.
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby Testament » Wed May 31, 2017 12:27 pm

Esppiral wrote:
Oh and by the way that's the level of care a Shenmue Remaster should get, anything less than this will extremely dissapoint me.


Should being the keyword here-- I agree. But it positively won't.

Not only is Yakuza a proven cash cow for Sega, but Kiwami was made of mostly re-used assets: they already had all of those character models and the district of Kamurocho mapped & modeled.

Full-on remakes are quite an expensive endeavor (essentially you're just developing a new game), but with Kiwami they had everything they needed already. Shenmue's a different story, unfortunately.

Honestly I think Shenmue is gorgeous enough that just an HD port would be fine. But a full remake would be one hell of an experience.
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby Bluecast » Wed May 31, 2017 1:00 pm

Himuro wrote: It's still a bad example because that's just Pacman character art. In actual Pacman games he still looks like the one on the left. And as said, the one on the right has been represented in Pacman character art for 30 years.

Here's how Pacman looks in a modern Pacman game.

Image

I'm not seeing it. Pacman is Pacman. He says the character for Pacman has changed but within gameplay it hasn't at all.

Even then, the comparison doesn't apply since Shenmue wasn't made with pixel art and we have examples both in this thread and via Kid NoCon's HD work that Ryo translates to modern graphics.

Essentially, the point makes no sense within the context of Shenmue and the character model of Ryo. The conclusion that old game characters don't translate as technology grows seems to be reaching at best especially for Shenmue.


Actually the modern Pac-Man games are the adventures games. He looked like this.
Image

Smash bros treated his design better tho. Smash Bros on Wii U Pac looks more like his classic artwork.
Image

Not relating my post to any Shenmue talk. Just saying these 2 are the most recent Pac-man iterations.
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Re: Ryo's face

Postby Centrale » Wed May 31, 2017 1:25 pm

Imagine the uproar when the community realizes that they have already been shown Ryo's new face. :shock:

Image

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Re: Ryo's face

Postby Spaghetti » Wed May 31, 2017 1:29 pm

Centrale wrote: Imagine the uproar when the community realizes that they have already been shown Ryo's new face. :shock:

Image

Lan Di gonna get fucked.
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