"Unlike Shenmue II it won't use the Virtua engine."

[Chaikilla]

to whom he lost to about 10 times in a row before he broke the disc in rage. It wouldn't be until the game came out on the original Xbox that I'd get the chance to finish it ;/

Open or closed casket, or was it a cremation?

Well, Baihu gave my bro an old fashioned burial.

The disc, on the other hand, had an open casket. I guess we thought it'd work one day but it never did ;( he threw it across the room (and maybe stepped on it, I forgot) but it never physically broke in half or anything. Just a few scratches, lethal ones nonetheless.

[killthesagabeforeitkillsu]

The fighting engine in Shenmue III is being built from scratch, and unlike Shenmue II it won't use the Virtua engine.

This is very, very worrying. About 60% of Shenmue's charm was how inticrite and unique the fighting system was
I hope it doesn't go in a sleeping dogs/uncharted/arkham like system. That could potentially kill the game for me.

Please someone make me feel better and explain how they can make the fighting like Virtua Fighter without it being like Virtua Fighter?

Well, YS made Virtua Fighter so he could probably do a good free battle system from scratch if he wanted to. Sadly from what I'm reading on interviews it looks like the game will move towards hybrid QTEs akin to David Cage games.

[Spaghetti]

Sadly from what I'm reading on interviews it looks like the game will move towards hybrid QTEs akin to David Cage games.

Apart from older interviews about integrating QTEs into combat, where are you picking this up from?

[killthesagabeforeitkillsu]

Sadly from what I'm reading on interviews it looks like the game will move towards hybrid QTEs akin to David Cage games.

Apart from older interviews about integrating QTEs into combat, where are you picking this up from?

YS saying he wants make a battle system about judgment not inputs.

[Spaghetti]

Right but that's not really lining up with what you said.

Even at absolute worst that's not really comparable to David Cage combat QTEs, because the inclusion of dynamic elements like advanced ragdoll and physics effects, and a skill tree for progression indicate a far higher amount of player agency in fighting than David Cage QTEs. You've kind of jumped to conclusions here.

[jasonorme666]

I think the old fighting system would age Shenmue 3 terribly.
I'd welcome a new system, look at the Batman Arkham games, the way you chain, block and counter attack is stunning to watch and flows beautifully.
It would be perfect for a martial arts themed game.

What? No, no, no, NO! They should stay as far away as possible from that awful system. One button to attack and one button to counter? It is beyond terrible. Shenmue I and II still have the best fighting system out of any adventure type game, it is definetly better than the Batman Arkham series. Having said that though, it seems like no game has quite got the art of combat down quite right. They're still far away from reaching the pinnacle.

I'd say Yakuza was the best.
And Shenmues fighting the best?.. come on.. I love Shenmue but it was horrible and clunky even back then.

I appreciate the reply man, thank you.

After reading all that it really sounds like Arkham and Sleeping Dogs like combat, yeah the combat in Sleeping Dogs is pretty but Shenmue had you feeling tense. It made you want to learn moves and practise so you can get better and utilize those moves in combat to make it easier. Catering to the Kyle Hilliard's (See Game Informer Shenmue/II Let's Play) of gamers sounds like a mistake, the people that just want to beat the bad guy instantaneously without any skill or training. Yes games should be fun but part of the thrill, part of that fun is that feeling you get when you put in the work, trained learned some combo's and use it to beat that difficult boss finally, that's all part of the fun. It gives you an amazing feeling of accomplishment and let's you feel more immersed in the world especially when it's not a retry and you have to find those bad guys again as a result of your failure and Shenmue is all about that kind of immersion.

I felt Arkham combat to be far more tactical than Shenmue, it was simple (which I feel is right up Yu's alley) but was all about mastering timing.
Shenmue combat was just button mashing, I don't think I've ever had to repeat a battle maybe with the exception of a couple in Shenmue 2.
Training was never really important and since you never knew when a battle was going to take place (unless your 2nd playthrough) you never had to focus on getting better.. you just kept repeating the same battle but finding 1 move to exploit.

[Shenmue_Legend]

I think the old fighting system would age Shenmue 3 terribly.
I'd welcome a new system, look at the Batman Arkham games, the way you chain, block and counter attack is stunning to watch and flows beautifully.
It would be perfect for a martial arts themed game.

What? No, no, no, NO! They should stay as far away as possible from that awful system. One button to attack and one button to counter? It is beyond terrible. Shenmue I and II still have the best fighting system out of any adventure type game, it is definetly better than the Batman Arkham series. Having said that though, it seems like no game has quite got the art of combat down quite right. They're still far away from reaching the pinnacle.

I'd say Yakuza was the best.
And Shenmues fighting the best?.. come on.. I love Shenmue but it was horrible and clunky even back then.

I appreciate the reply man, thank you.

After reading all that it really sounds like Arkham and Sleeping Dogs like combat, yeah the combat in Sleeping Dogs is pretty but Shenmue had you feeling tense. It made you want to learn moves and practise so you can get better and utilize those moves in combat to make it easier. Catering to the Kyle Hilliard's (See Game Informer Shenmue/II Let's Play) of gamers sounds like a mistake, the people that just want to beat the bad guy instantaneously without any skill or training. Yes games should be fun but part of the thrill, part of that fun is that feeling you get when you put in the work, trained learned some combo's and use it to beat that difficult boss finally, that's all part of the fun. It gives you an amazing feeling of accomplishment and let's you feel more immersed in the world especially when it's not a retry and you have to find those bad guys again as a result of your failure and Shenmue is all about that kind of immersion.

I felt Arkham combat to be far more tactical than Shenmue, it was simple (which I feel is right up Yu's alley) but was all about mastering timing.
Shenmue combat was just button mashing, I don't think I've ever had to repeat a battle maybe with the exception of a couple in Shenmue 2.
Training was never really important and since you never knew when a battle was going to take place (unless your 2nd playthrough) you never had to focus on getting better.. you just kept repeating the same battle but finding 1 move to exploit.

What? Yakuza has a reptitive and boring combat system. It is actually just button mashing, which Shenmue is definetly not (I don't know what game you played, but Shenmue's combat system is definetly not just "button mashing"). Also, the combat of the Batman games is "far more tactical"? No, absolutely not. The Batman games have ONE button to attack (unless you count the Cape stun, which I'm not) and ONE button to counter, it's like it was designed for babies. Compared to Shenmue where you don't just mash one button to attack, you actually have to input different commands for different attacks. Unlike in the Batman games, you actually have a large variety of attacks at your disposal (and it actually requires skill to pull them off, whereas in the Arkham series you just keep pressing one button and see Batman execute other attacks without you having to put any effort into it). In addition to this, Shenmue has dodges, counters, throws AND throw teching. Now please tell me how it is more tactical?

[lorddanilo]

The Shenmue battle system is very interesting, but I know it can be problematic for new players. I really like the battles of the first games, but not all players like fighting games.

The Arkham series system has a layer of strategy different from other games. It allows you to just smash the buttons, but this will not work forever. Maybe a mix with the DmC-Devil May Cry system might come close to the ideal. Holding one of the triggers to get into a different fighting mode would fit well. It would be possible hold one trigger for punches and the other for kicks, changing the intensity with the face buttons.

(I hope everyone can understand my english. I'm brazilian )

[Centrale]

Consider this remark in the Dengeki Online interview (thanks to Switch for the translation):

YS: The skill tree won't be overly complex, but one is planned. If it's complicated it could be hard to get to grips with, so it will fill itself in automatically as you do various things. However, checking the tree and deliberately building it up I think will be even more enjoyable.

Of course, even if you don't fill the skill tree the game will move forward. Achieving an impressive victory by performing a series of special moves, or barely scraping in with a win - I would like to implement this kind of level of distinction.

It doesn't really describe the method of input but it is reassuring that it will be possible to perform a series of special moves if you play well.

[Fabiusco]

I think the natural evolution of Shenmue fighting system can be found in stylish action games like DMC and Bayonetta, they put apart the chunkiness of movements typical of fighting games but they are still able to manage a vast number of combos, Bayonetta also provided a good example of QTEs added to that kind of gameplay.
Yakuza series took the same route, but I hope for something a bit less buttons smashing...
Anyway, from the infos Yu shared with us, I have the feeling that he's going toward a totaly new direction... it's like he's trying to move our focus from the technical aspects we are used to see in previous Shenmue games toward something totaly new not only for the serie, but for the genre in general.

[mjq jazz bar]

I'm going to side with the guy who envisioned and created the Virtua Fighter series & Shenmue series (among others) on any and all gameplay ideas.

[Your Boy Leroy]

For Shenmue's QTE battles, I honestly wouldn't mind something along the lines of those found in Heavy Rain or Beyond Two Souls. I thought those were really fun and kind of showed a natural progression of what the original Shenmue games were going for with their QTE battles.

For the Free Battle system though, I really hope the team is able to develop a system that enables players to tackle multiple opponents in a better way. The battle system for the one-on-on fights was really the highlight of the system itself, I feel. But the one vs. many fights, while not very difficult, didn't really have that cinematic quality that I think Yu Suzuki is talking about, something that's much more apparent in the Arkham games and Sleeping Dogs. Now, that's not to say that I'd want something as simplistic or non-interactive as those battle systems implemented into Shenmue III, but rather something more refined than the original games. Even the Yakuza games, as much as I love them, have a hard time selling that cinematic quality when fighting more than one opponent.

[Your Boy Leroy]

I really do love the ability to do complex moves and simpler combos from the original battle system though, and I hope that's something that's kept. This is the main reason why I can't say that I prefer the battle systems of more modern action games over Shenmue's, however dated it may be.

[Spaghetti]

Consider this remark in the Dengeki Online interview (thanks to Switch for the translation):

YS: The skill tree won't be overly complex, but one is planned. If it's complicated it could be hard to get to grips with, so it will fill itself in automatically as you do various things. However, checking the tree and deliberately building it up I think will be even more enjoyable.

Of course, even if you don't fill the skill tree the game will move forward. Achieving an impressive victory by performing a series of special moves, or barely scraping in with a win - I would like to implement this kind of level of distinction.

It doesn't really describe the method of input but it is reassuring that it will be possible to perform a series of special moves if you play well.

I was literally about to post this too.

But yes, please put to bed any fears about lack of player agency or a win button.

[killthesagabeforeitkillsu]

Right but that's not really lining up with what you said.

Even at absolute worst that's not really comparable to David Cage combat QTEs, because the inclusion of dynamic elements like advanced ragdoll and physics effects, and a skill tree for progression indicate a far higher amount of player agency in fighting than David Cage QTEs. You've kind of jumped to conclusions here.

Probably, I gave the David Cage example because his games are more experimental with QTEs than the traditional kind.

This is an interesting discussion because some inputs are almost canon since the game has a unique way of teaching us new moves.