|Shenmue 3 Hype| Shenmue Combo/FREE Battle Compliation

[TheKenjitoMaster]

phpBB [video]

In celebration for Shenmue III coming out this year(God willing), I've compiled up a combo video showing off the amazing Virtua Fighter FREE Battle System featured in Shenmue I and Shenmue II. Let's get sweaty!

[UltimateBeing01]

I heard Yu was going to change this up in 3. Oh God I hope it's not like the Batman Arkham games....

[Spaghetti]

I heard Yu was going to change this up in 3. Oh God I hope it's not like the Batman Arkham games....

It doesn't sound very much like it from the descriptions we've had so far, but we still have a somewhat incomplete picture of what's happening with the new combat.

The fighting game inputs are going though. Likely to accommodate analogue stick controls, and allow Ryo a larger arc of attack to fend off enemies from all directions - without being at the mercy of the occasionally spotty auto-targeting seen in the combat of the originals.

[Rikitatsu]

The video is incredible, well done!
All the more unfortunate that this system will be gone in Shenmue 3. Despite any minor flaws, it is still the best combat system of its type.

[UltimateBeing01]

I heard Yu was going to change this up in 3. Oh God I hope it's not like the Batman Arkham games....

It doesn't sound very much like it from the descriptions we've had so far, but we still have a somewhat incomplete picture of what's happening with the new combat.

The fighting game inputs are going though. Likely to accommodate analogue stick controls, and allow Ryo a larger arc of attack to fend off enemies from all directions - without being at the mercy of the occasionally spotty auto-targeting seen in the combat of the originals.

Awww......man. I don't know if that's good news or not. Are they going to bring back the training from Shenmue I?

[UltimateBeing01]

The video is incredible, well done!
All the more unfortunate that this system will be gone in Shenmue 3. Despite any minor flaws, it is still the best combat system of its type.

Agreed. I still get my ass kicked in Shenmue I from time to time. It's so.... clunky! LOL.

[Spaghetti]

All the more unfortunate that this system will be gone in Shenmue 3.

C'mon, you know it couldn't fly as-is today. Relying on d-pad inputs alone just doesn't make sense at this point.

When you factor in the VF roots, it's a combat system exceeding 20 years old. It's still fun to play in the context of when it came out, but in a new game it definitely needs renovation.

Awww......man. I don't know if that's good news or not. Are they going to bring back the training from Shenmue I?

I mean if you want fighting game inputs there are still, well, fighting games.

But now that dual analogue controls are standardised, and the combat engine itself is probably old enough to drink, it just doesn't quite make sense to keep that style of system in a story-based game and not build something new from the ground up.

Dunno about training yet. Yu has been told by a few fans during interviews they would like to see it return, but the most he's said is that he'll take it under consideration. Personally I'd be more interested in sparring against AI partners than just throwing kicks in a parking lot, but it'll be interesting how the training aspect is incorporated. It's definitely there in terms of the story from what we've seen already, but any kind of gameplay angle on training Ryo has yet to be talked about.

[punkmanced]

The training was definitely a fun mechanism, which was very 'Shenmue' in spirit. It encapsulated part 1 quite nicely: a solitary journey.

It would be a shame for YS to forego it from part 3. Whether used or not, it was always a cool little feature to have in-game; one of many which made the overall experience feel so unique and personal.

[Rikitatsu]

All the more unfortunate that this system will be gone in Shenmue 3.

C'mon, you know it couldn't fly as-is today. Relying on d-pad inputs alone just doesn't make sense at this point.

When you factor in the VF roots, it's a combat system exceeding 20 years old. It's still fun to play in the context of when it came out, but in a new game it definitely needs renovation.

Eh, it's not as archaic as you're making it out to be. For one, they don't have to rely on D-pad inputs now, analog works well as it does in the Virtua Fighter games.

It only needed a bit of polish, better camera system here and better tracking there, otherwise the base of the system is extremely solid, and I honestly can't think of any hand-to-hand combat that is better. (Aside maybe from God Hand).

[Spaghetti]

Eh, it's not as archaic as you're making it out to be. For one, they don't have to rely on D-pad inputs now, analog works well as it does in the Virtua Fighter games.

It only needed a bit of polish, better camera system here and better tracking there, otherwise the base of the system is extremely solid, and I honestly can't think of any hand-to-hand combat that is better. (Aside maybe from God Hand).

Not to open up a can of worms dating back probably two decades, but the analogue stick has generally been considered the bastard child when it comes to fighting game control schemes. Most d-pads are just quicker and more precise, especially in something like VF.

Anecdotal evidence, but I know I wouldn't have willingly played with d-pad until my thumb blistered with VF5, if the analogue stick was a better option. Of course at some point I wised up and bought an arcade stick.

But on the other stuff, when you start talking about the bits that need touching up under the hood... it becomes clearer that a rebuild was inevitable. It's not just a better camera or improved targeting, but animation systems, physics interactions, etc. Technology has moved on so much that a lot of that old code is basically useless now, you may as well use the UE4 defaults and tune it from there instead.

If you won't accept anything other than literally the old combat then I'm sorry to say you'll probably be disappointed when III releases.

[Rikitatsu]

Eh, it's not as archaic as you're making it out to be. For one, they don't have to rely on D-pad inputs now, analog works well as it does in the Virtua Fighter games.

It only needed a bit of polish, better camera system here and better tracking there, otherwise the base of the system is extremely solid, and I honestly can't think of any hand-to-hand combat that is better. (Aside maybe from God Hand).

Not to open up a can of worms dating back probably two decades, but the analogue stick has generally been considered the bastard child when it comes to fighting game control schemes. Most d-pads are just quicker and more precise, especially in something like VF.

Anecdotal evidence, but I know I wouldn't have willingly played with d-pad until my thumb blistered with VF5, if the analogue stick was a better option. Of course at some point I wised up and bought an arcade stick.

I've never had any issues with using D-Pad for performing moves, nor do I think most people find it obtrusive (As evident by the millions of players who play 3D fighting games on casually on consoles)... Still, they can assign the inputs for the analogue sticks and it'd still work. Not as precise, but it'll do. Especially in Shenmue where inputs aren't as demanding as other fighting games.

But on the other stuff, when you start talking about the bits that need touching up under the hood... it becomes clearer that a rebuild was inevitable. It's not just a better camera or improved targeting, but animation systems, physics interactions, etc. Technology has moved on so much that a lot of that old code is basically useless now, you may as well use the UE4 defaults and tune it from there instead.

If you won't accept anything other than literally the old combat then I'm sorry to say you'll probably be disappointed when III releases.

I don't think anyone is expecting them to literally copy & paste the code from Shenmue 1&2, so of course it's should be an updated module of the VF combat system, where physics and animations are adequately improved for modern expectations. That's the dream anyway.

[Tortu_genial]

Nice Video

The fighting systeme was really cool in Shenmue 1 and 2.
For me, it is the best systeme ever, in an adventure/rpg game

Can't wait to see the new one in Shenmue 3 !

[Spaghetti]

I've never had any issues with using D-Pad for performing moves, nor do I think most people find it obtrusive (As evident by the millions of players who play 3D fighting games on casually on consoles)... Still, they can assign the inputs for the analogue sticks and it'd still work. Not as precise, but it'll do. Especially in Shenmue where inputs aren't as demanding as other fighting games.

I re-wrote this post a few times, but it was getting off-track so;

Shenmue's combat was made with the d-pad in mind, there's no way around that. You're correct in saying the inputs aren't as precise as VF, but you still feel the difference when using a mushy d-pad like the one on a 360 controller let alone mapping the inputs to an analogue stick. It wasn't designed for either, and it shows. You just can't replicate the preciseness you get with a good d-pad. I mean, there being so many alternate 360 controllers with revised d-pads out there proves that.

But here we are in 2018, dual analogue controls are the absolute standard outside a few exceptions. One of those exceptions are fighting games (depending on the pad, or the game), but the fact is that ultimately Shenmue is not a fighting game. It's a story-based game, where the combat is regularly 1 v many, and you need the capability to attack or defend from multiple angles.

Obviously that doesn't take away the fun possible with the combat in Shenmue/Shenmue II, but it doesn't make sense to do it like that now; especially not when one of Yu's goals for the combat is for Ryo to have better capabilities to attack and defend quickly in multiple directions. For better or worse - and even aside from the d-pad/analogue stick stuff - fighting game inputs limit that.

I don't think anyone is expecting them to literally copy & paste the code from Shenmue 1&2, so of course it's should be an updated module of the VF combat system, where physics and animations are adequately improved for modern expectations. That's the dream anyway.

I mean, there are things we can't really know in this scenario because of our limited information. If YSnet/Yu thought that building the combat again from the ground up was a better choice than bolting new stuff onto the old (if they even had access to the code as part of the deal with SEGA); then I trust that's the right decision.

[punkmanced]

^ It doesn’t make sense to you because you’ve already decided that using the d-pad is an impossibility…on the Xbox 360 ;)

It’s fun to speculate, but the truth is we know next to nothing about the game’s fighting engine save for a few vague statements. Maybe we’ll get a hybrid system. A 70-man battle better suited for dual analogue controls…leading to an epic 1-on-1 challenge with ___. Enter the D-pad.

In any event, a lot of us would be ecstatic with a 21st century version of the original games’ combat system. Will it happen? Probably not, but that’ll most likely come down to a creative decision as opposed to anything else.

Now, in regards to Shenmue not being a fighting game…frankly, that’s an odd point to make. Shenmue isn’t any one genre in particular, but rather a plethora of complex pieces exquisitely woven together. RPG- check. Fighting game- check. Detective story- check. Etc…

Look, if you don’t want to see the D-pad making a comeback in Shenmue 3, that’s completely fine, but for a series with mechanics based on one of the best fighting games out there, it’s not exactly far-fetched to wonder if/ hope that some of the upcoming segments of said fighting remain traditional, controls and all. JS.

[Spaghetti]

^ It doesn’t make sense to you because you’ve already decided that using the d-pad is an impossibility…on the Xbox 360 ;)

It’s fun to speculate, but the truth is we know next to nothing about the game’s fighting engine save for a few vague statements. Maybe we’ll get a hybrid system. A 70-man battle better suited for dual analogue controls…leading to an epic 1-on-1 challenge with ___. Enter the D-pad.

In any event, a lot of us would be ecstatic with a 21st century version of the original games’ combat system. Will it happen? Probably not, but that’ll most likely come down to a creative decision as opposed to anything else.

Now, in regards to Shenmue not being a fighting game…frankly, that’s an odd point to make. Shenmue isn’t any one genre in particular, but rather a plethora of complex pieces exquisitely woven together. RPG- check. Fighting game- check. Detective story- check. Etc…

Look, if you don’t want to see the D-pad making a comeback in Shenmue 3, that’s completely fine, but for a series with mechanics based on one of the best fighting games out there, it’s not exactly far-fetched to wonder if/ hope that some of the upcoming segments of said fighting remain traditional, controls and all. JS.

No, it doesn't make sense because controller standards have changed in the 20 years since the originals came out, and the design goals for the combat now place a higher importance on attacking or defending from multiple directions. I'm not forming my opinion on this just because the 360 d-pad is mushy, or that analogue sticks are usually not the control method of choice when it comes to traditional fighting game inputs, but this is getting sort of off-topic as it is.

A hybrid system is an intriguing idea, but there are impracticalities to switching the input method depending on the number of opponents you're facing. It's inconsistent, and might not be a smooth player experience to have the controls you've been using for however many hours suddenly change the first time you reach a 1-on-1 boss fight. Yu did say the combat would be adaptable for fighting many opponents or focusing on just one though, but I'm not sure he meant it like this.

You're misreading my fighting game comment there so I'll elaborate. It's mostly built off something Yu Suzuki said a little while ago about the VF combat never really particularly suiting the game Shenmue actually is. It's a story based game first and foremost. If people want fighting game inputs, they can play fighting games. It's fair enough reasoning, and matches up with Yu's desire to tell the story through the combat; however that's going to be realised.*

The originals had the VF combat as a base, but if I'm remembering the story right, it was because Yu wanted something familiar and "known" to work with on a project where they didn't have much of a reference point for what they were creating (this may apply to using the VF IP originally for the story too). Now he and the other team veterans have made two Shenmue games, and we're 20 years later with a whole new set of tools, it's not surprising there's going to be some pulling away from the VF roots.

All I'm suggesting is not being militantly opposed to change, and at least trying to understand why those changes are desired or made necessary by how much has changed with games in the last 20 years. Yu has said some encouraging things about suggested changes that would solve frustrations in the old combat (arc of attack related stuff, whiffing an opponent by just slightly being outside their hitbox), so it's not like he's just tinkering for the sake of it.

*before the panic about "omg this means it'll all be QTEs!" starts, please remember Yu reiterated as recently as last month the battles are real time, with free movement and attacking/defending.