Shenmue 64

[SMDzero]

The Saturn version of RE may have looked worse because, again, it was more difficult to develop for and the development team perhaps didn't have the skill-set to achieve maximum graphical output on the Saturn version by utilizing it's dual processors.

Don't mistake difficulty of development for a systems lack of power. Many multi-plats looked better on 360 despite the PS3 being more powerful for that very reason.

The best way to accurately compare graphical capabilities is by pitting two systems best looking games against each other. Shenmue Saturn looked better than anything on PSX so it stands to reason that it was a more powerful console.

Similarly N64 games like Ocarina of Time, Mario 64, Turok 2, and Banjo Kazooie looked better than anything on PSX making it the graphically superior console.

It is true, however, that in practice PSX was the (apparent) more capable system, but this had to do with it's ease of development rather than it's underlying horsepower.

Honestly, there’s no game on the Nintendo 64 that can stand toe-to-toe with the best that the Saturn and PlayStation have to offer. This is especially true when each game is in motion, as the severe hardware limitations of the Nintendo 64 become that much more apparent. Graphically, Nintendo 64 games are marred by terrible low-res textures; not that you'd ever see much anyway thanks to the poor draw distance that plagued the system. So, even though the Nintendo 64 was released after the Saturn and PlayStation it still ended up being the technically inferior console. It just goes to show how poor design choices destroyed any advantage Nintendo could have otherwise gained by using newer hardware.

I stand by my assertion that N64 was graphically superior to PSX. PSX was more detailed but terribly pixelated and had warped clippy polygons due to no perspective correction.

Also with the unholy might of the expansion pack, the N64 left PSX in the dust.

[Kintor]

I stand by my assertion that N64 was graphically superior to PSX. PSX was more detailed but terribly pixelated and had warped clippy polygons due to no perspective correction.

Also with the unholy might of the expansion pack, the N64 left PSX in the dust.

Well, the Nintendo 64 was certainly an unholy abomination but I'd hardly call it mighty.

On paper the Nintendo 64 should have been able to exceed the performance of the Saturn and PlayStation thanks to its slightly newer hardware. However, the reality of the situation bore out quite a different outcome; when the severe memory limitations of Nintendo's cartridges had negative consequence for system wide performance. The graphics of Nintendo 64 games should have been better but they weren't, that with the low quality textures Nintendo 64 games ended up being the worst looking of the generation. Combined with the extra expense of manufacturing cartridges over CDs it's no wonder that third-party developers and publishers abandoned Nintendo in droves.

[SMDzero]

Name a single PSX game that looked better than Banjo Kazooie.... I'll swear to never play Shenmue 3 if you can come up with an example!

[Kintor]

Name a single PSX game that looked better than Banjo Kazooie.... I'll swear to never play Shenmue 3 if you can come up with an example!

No offense but that's a terrible wager. I want you to play Shenmue 3! You found your way here to the Shenmue Dojo and are willing to support Shenmue 3, which I respect.

Still, I have to question why you bother trying to absolve the sins of the Nintendo 64. A generation earlier, with the Super Nintendo, and you can argue for an equal footing. A generation later, with the GameCube, and you can still argue for an equal footing, more or less. Yet, when it comes to the Nintendo 64 you don't have a chance; cartridges on a 64-bit console was a stupid idea on Nintendo's part, it crippled the whole system. So, you can bring up Banjo Kazooie (or any other Nintendo 64 game) if you like but it won't make a difference. All Nintendo 64 games are ugly; the best of the bunch is still an ugly game thanks to those awful low-res textures.

[SMDzero]

All Nintendo 64 games are ugly; the best of the bunch is still an ugly game thanks to those awful low-res textures.

So Ocarina of Time is an ugly game?

Look we're both intelligent people (Shenmue fans) so let's concur on the obvious.

1.)Many PSX games indeed looked better than N64 games due to the various bottlenecks that hindered the latter systems' performance.

2.)That being said, the best looking games of that generation tended to be on N64 due to that systems technically superior hardware (looking at the specs holistically).

[Kintor]

So Ocarina of Time is an ugly game?

Pretty much. The port of Ocarina of Time on the GameCube improved things somewhat. But as far as the original Nintendo 64 version is concerned... it's most certainly an ugly mess.

[SMDzero]

Are all PSX games ugly too?

If not.. which ones aren't?

[Kintor]

Are all PSX games ugly too?

If not.. which ones aren't?

We're not here to talk about PlayStation games, merely the shortcomings of Nintendo 64 games. The unique characteristics of the Nintendo 64's hardware adversely affected all games for the system, making each Nintendo 64 game ugly. Certainly, since the 32-bit generation saw the transition from 2D to 3D games it's not surprising that the graphics for all 3D games of this era are a little rough. Even so, the Nintendo 64, a 64-bit console, had games that where universally uglier than those available for the Saturn and PlayStation. Thanks to Nintendo’s incompetence the Nintendo 64 was a complete disaster, an ill-conceived console that brought down the quality of all games released on it.

[SMDzero]

Are all PSX games ugly too?

If not.. which ones aren't?

We're not here to talk about PlayStation games, merely the shortcomings of Nintendo 64 games. The unique characteristics of the Nintendo 64's hardware adversely affected all games for the system, making each Nintendo 64 game ugly. Certainly, since the 32-bit generation saw the transition from 2D to 3D games it's not surprising that the graphics for all 3D games of this era are a little rough. Even so, the Nintendo 64, a 64-bit console, had games that where universally uglier than those available for the Saturn and PlayStation. Thanks to Nintendo’s incompetence the Nintendo 64 was a complete disaster, an ill-conceived console that brought down the quality of all games released on it.

In your opinion.

And "complete disaster"? The system didn't live up to it's predecessors sure, but this sounds like an exaggeration.

Again, please tell me a single PSX game that looks objectively better than N64's Banjo Kazooie. Don't feel bad... I'm gonna play Shenmue 3.

[Kintor]

In your opinion.

Yes, quite rightly in my opinion. I've never seen a Nintendo 64 game that I've liked the look of and I've seen most of them. Which was quite a simple feat really, given how decidedly small the Nintendo 64's library is compared to the Saturn and the PlayStation.

[Let's Get Sweaty]

For argument's sake I'll name a game that looked better on the N64 than the PS1, and it's the game that sold me a console: WWF War Zone.

[SMDzero]

In your opinion.

Yes, quite rightly in my opinion. I've never seen a Nintendo 64 game that I've liked the look of and I've seen most of them. Which was quite a simple feat really, given how decidedly small the Nintendo 64's library is compared to the Saturn and the PlayStation.

Answer my question. Name a PSX game that is graphically superior to the N64's Banjo Kazooie. You can't do it.

[drunkensailor]

lol that's a terrible comparison. do you actually own both versions? I do and the saturn and psx versions look 95% similar. psx has slightly higher res but the saturn has more vibrant colors. let's not forget the saturn version was ported from psx. that's a really bad argument anyway. if you want to compare it go compare with a game made from scratch solely with saturn in mind by competent programmers. then take a look at panzer dragoon saga released in late 97. blows everything psx had to offer away in every way except perhaps fmv.

I've played through PDS twice actually; it's one of my all time favorites. Pretty good looking for the Saturn, but really not too impressive for a fifth gen game. Yes, I do have both versions of RE. The PS1version has always been my preference for a number of reasons, namely the visuals. Another multi-plat I mentioned earlier is Tomb Raider, which was originally developed as an exclusive for the Saturn. The PS1 version has noticably smoother character models and brighter, more colorful environments.

You're getting rather defensive, so let me clarify that I have nothing against the Saturn. It's a really cool and underrated console, but I think people need to be more understanding and honest about the benefits of a second CPU. Even if it had four, that wouldn't dismiss its weak graphical capabilities. The GPU has always been its bottleneck.

it is impressive for a 97 32 bit game. unless you can find me a similar rpg entirely speeched, and with that graphics without pre rendered backgrounds.

[Kintor]

Answer my question. Name a PSX game that is graphically superior to the N64's Banjo Kazooie. You can't do it.

It's absurd for you to even suggest that the original version of Banjo Kazooie on the Nintendo 64 looks anything but ugly. Once Rare was in Microsoft's hands they could do something to make Banjo Kazooie looks decent, but that doesn't change the fact that Rare's legacy on the Nintendo 64 was marred by the systems poorly designed hardware. It's a pity to think how much potential Rare wasted as a second-party developer to Nintendo, when for all these years Rare could have been making games for other consoles. If things worked out differently the world wouldn't have had to wait 21 years for a home version of Battletoads Arcade.

[SMDzero]

Can you please answer the question?