In all of this can't we atleast give a thumbs up to Sega?

[Yama]

JSRF was no JSR, but it was solid. VF5, VT3 were also both super solid.

[Jackie Fhan]

Sega have not been Sega since 2003. They still deserve some respect for letting Yu have the Shenmue license, even if we don't know the ins and outs of the deal they struck. Shenmue 3 is happening because of Sega. They were a "roadblock" for many years but they are fixing that mistake right now.

I've drifted away from gaming, but I'm sure Sega put out a few gems in the vein of Sonic 06 in the nine years since.

Sonic 06 was buggy as hell.
I can only think of two games that were superb and developed internally by a Sega studio since the end of the Dreamcast era; Panzer Dragoon Orta and Valkyria Chronicles.

Yes, and I can't be angry at them for losing studios and games. It isn't like they had a big choice. Things changed, most the good things from japan are gone that I enjoyed because of some changes in the market.

I'm sure sega and many other studios would be happy to make games and make money to support their business

Hudson, Capcom, Square, Irem and many other companies have had a lot of changes or issues.. closes and different business models

i really miss the little gems from ps2 era like Sky odyssey, burnout, raw danger, sega games on and on

Sega did not have to give the things they did to yu. I think a lot of you are missing the point and your being way to bitter about things we hardly know much about to be frank. We are not there on the board of directors or investing in a company. At the end of the day, a company can't survive if something isn't working. Sega gave us games when they sold. Things weren't working out what do you expect them to do? It's either change or be eaten. Yeah it sucks for us that these things happened and sega had not made good business moves since like 95 anyways..

[Yokosuka]

JSRF was no JSR, but it was solid. VF5, VT3 were also both super solid.

You're so harsh, JSRF was a super game with his own soul but more based on the open world thing when the first focused on time attack gameplay. I've never seen a sequel with so much personality compared to its original (and the original had the most revolutionary aesthetic of video games, that spoke volume about the achievement)

But the very last time I'v been very impressed by Sega is Sonic & Sega All Stars Racing Transformed. Still below Mario Kart but I was shocked by the overall quality : Speed, solid music, rich content, amazing tracks, Sega's spirit, attractive single mode, fun. Just wow, I really didn't expect that from Sumo.

[freakycritter]

I've followed his career very closely, and have spent an inordinate amount of time playing his games before Shenmue was ever released; probably over 3 thousand hours of my life just on Virtua Fighter 1-3. But I don't remember if he was on good terms with SEGA when he departed, or if anything was made public about it.

He is still has advisory role, and had a "Creative Officer" role until 2011 (same position as Nagoshi and Kataoka who lead arcade and console division respectively)...due to his success in the 80's and 90's. His complaint was that Sega woudn't greenlight his concepts. Among them was a surreal MMO revolving around human and pet relationships. Tbh I'm not sure if the Suzukis ideas after Shenmue were that great. Not like Sega hasn't funded novel arcade cabinets or unique games post Yu Suzuki.

I remember Sumo Digital saying that working with Sega, they learnt taht if the creators want to, they get some authority on their IP or pass it on to peers when they leave the company. This is the reason why say Mizuguchi got rights to Rez, or now Suzuki got rights to Shenmue pretty easily. Sega has been OK with making Suzuki making Shenmue since 2003 appearently.

Since they killed AM2, they might as well throw their licenses to the garbage bin.

How did they kill AM2?

[Monkei]

[quote="Yama"] JSRF was no JSR, but it was solid. VF5, VT3 were also both super solid.[/quote]

JSRF was in every way better than JSR.. more precise and much more fluid controls and gameplay, an equally as good, if not better soundtrack, better optics, better stages, better bossfights, better everything. All in all simply a better game than its predecessor. Did you play the hd version of JSR? it's still good, but the controls haven't aged all too well. I would imagine a remastered JSRF to fare much better there.

VF5 also was more than super solid I think, but I'm not really an expert there.


Other than that, yeah, Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing and Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed were awesome for their fan service, and super solid gameplaywise

Concerning the thumbs up to sega, the 2015 sega, - just no. It's great they gave yu the license and all, but no. Fuck them.

[freakycritter]

JSRF was no JSR, but it was solid. VF5, VT3 were also both super solid.

Concerning the thumbs up to sega, the 2015 sega, - just no. It's great they gave yu the license and all, but no. Fuck them.

lol, what did they do to piss one off?

[spinksy]

JSRF was no JSR, but it was solid. VF5, VT3 were also both super solid.

Concerning the thumbs up to sega, the 2015 sega, - just no. It's great they gave yu the license and all, but no. Fuck them.

lol, what did they do to piss one off?

You're seriously asking this to someone.

Just look back at Sega's decisions over the past 10 years - the utter crap they've released etc.

Sonic Boom - an absolute JOKE of a game that reportedly took years and milions to make

Aliens Colonial Marines (which they were actually sued for) which again took years and a reported $60 million in total over the years. Yes $60 million!!

All the other Sonic crap (minus Generations which was decent with good review scores- but again they instantly refuse a sequel).

No localisation on MAJOR titles such as PSO, Yakuza etc etc

I could talk about this all day, seriously.

[freakycritter]

JSRF was no JSR, but it was solid. VF5, VT3 were also both super solid.

Concerning the thumbs up to sega, the 2015 sega, - just no. It's great they gave yu the license and all, but no. Fuck them.

lol, what did they do to piss one off?

You're seriously asking this to someone.

Just look back at Sega's decisions over the past 10 years - the utter crap they've released etc.

Sonic Boom - an absolute JOKE of a game that reportedly took years and milions to make

Aliens Colonial Marines (which they were actually sued for) which again took years and a reported $60 million in total over the years. Yes $60 million!!

All the other Sonic crap (minus Generations which was decent with good review scores- but again they instantly refuse a sequel).

No localisation on MAJOR titles such as PSO, Yakuza etc etc

I could talk about this all day, seriously.

It's not anti-consumer, you don't have to buy a low quality product, and they don't have to give the things you ask for.

I think dissapoitment is a more appropriate reaction.

[Jackie Fhan]

I think yakuza is a fine game, it does have better mission structure than a lot of shenmue a lot of people would like the story better than shenmue as well.

As far as what they did with other publishers rearding alien. I think they really got unfairly screwed over on such deals and you have to blame the developers of the game more so than sega.

To be fair, Sonic games haven't really been that great since the genesis days. Sonic adventure, while a fun game and one i loved when the dreamcast launched, well... it's a pretty poorly developed game honestly...

I think you can't really say sega didn't give me this or that fuck them. This is silly honestly...

For one, sega made arcade games and the arcade market went bye bye super fast and you'd find it hard to find an arcade in most of america. While a lot of their best games are fan favorites they just stuck to the Arcade side for too long in their later greater days.

They went from panzer, sonic genesis, streets of rage and great home games to

Daytona, virtua fighter, virtua cop, crazy taxi, JSR

You can of course find some slightly meatier titles , but for the most part when you are not producing a lot of deeper experience like your competitors are doing... it's probably going to end poorly and it did.

Sega was a pick up and play company and when that market was shot, so were they. I don't think you can say fuck sega for the market crashing on them. Just seems so unfair...

I remember thinking when I had my dreamcast the first year "man, these graphics are amazing" but even at that time at the age of 14 or so. I was still feeling it lacked depth and true console experiences. It had a few, but even those games have shown to have huge flaws in today's market when looking back. Resident Evil CV, Shenmue and so on.

They didn't really have the genre pushing campaign games that we were soon getting on the ps2 and xbox. I think these systems showed segas fault's even more so than sega did.

Halo was huge on the xbox, sony was getting dmc, mgs and other more in depth story titles with great gameplay and mission structures.

I think this is the real and true downfall of sega, always have. Too many pick up and play games... even though in today's mobile market that will work for them...

While you guys are saying they released games like alien etc

i honestly think their crash was dependent on the games we actually like but couldn't fit the changing market

Panzer, Crazy Taxi, Fishing, Virtua Copy, House of the Dead

And while some of these games are honestly my favorite (own all the panzers, hotd etc) The market isn't really into them like they were in the 90's. by the time sega was trying to release these games in the early 2000's people didn't want them or look for them.

[spinksy]

JSRF was no JSR, but it was solid. VF5, VT3 were also both super solid.

Concerning the thumbs up to sega, the 2015 sega, - just no. It's great they gave yu the license and all, but no. Fuck them.

lol, what did they do to piss one off?

You're seriously asking this to someone.

Just look back at Sega's decisions over the past 10 years - the utter crap they've released etc.

Sonic Boom - an absolute JOKE of a game that reportedly took years and milions to make

Aliens Colonial Marines (which they were actually sued for) which again took years and a reported $60 million in total over the years. Yes $60 million!!

All the other Sonic crap (minus Generations which was decent with good review scores- but again they instantly refuse a sequel).

No localisation on MAJOR titles such as PSO, Yakuza etc etc

I could talk about this all day, seriously.

It's not anti-consumer, you don't have to buy a low quality product, and they don't have to give the things you ask for.

I think dissapoitment is a more appropriate reaction.

Did you not see all the previews of Aliens Colonial marines?

Heres just one of the many youtube vids on it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z2qVebxlUo

It looked amazing - when launched it was utter crap!

they got sued for falsely advertising it.

ANYWAY-

I'm not trying to be hostile towards anyone with all this - just a LOT of frustration/disspointment etc etc with Sega..

[Yama]

JSRF was no JSR, but it was solid. VF5, VT3 were also both super solid.

JSRF was in every way better than JSR.. more precise and much more fluid controls and gameplay, an equally as good, if not better soundtrack, better optics, better stages, better bossfights, better everything. All in all simply a better game than its predecessor. Did you play the hd version of JSR? it's still good, but the controls haven't aged all too well. I would imagine a remastered JSRF to fare much better there.

VF5 also was more than super solid I think, but I'm not really an expert there.


Other than that, yeah, Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing and Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed were awesome for their fan service, and super solid gameplaywise

Concerning the thumbs up to sega, the 2015 sega, - just no. It's great they gave yu the license and all, but no. Fuck them.

Future is literally just a dumbed down version of the original with an inferior soundtrack, inferior art style and levels far too big so you just end up wandering around for 90% of the game.

[freakycritter]

I think yakuza is a fine game, it does have better mission structure than a lot of shenmue a lot of people would like the story better than shenmue as well.

As far as what they did with other publishers rearding alien. I think they really got unfairly screwed over on such deals and you have to blame the developers of the game more so than sega.

To be fair, Sonic games haven't really been that great since the genesis days. Sonic adventure, while a fun game and one i loved when the dreamcast launched, well... it's a pretty poorly developed game honestly...

I think you can't really say sega didn't give me this or that fuck them. This is silly honestly...

For one, sega made arcade games and the arcade market went bye bye super fast and you'd find it hard to find an arcade in most of america. While a lot of their best games are fan favorites they just stuck to the Arcade side for too long in their later greater days.

They went from panzer, sonic genesis, streets of rage and great home games to

Daytona, virtua fighter, virtua cop, crazy taxi, JSR

You can of course find some slightly meatier titles , but for the most part when you are not producing a lot of deeper experience like your competitors are doing... it's probably going to end poorly and it did.

Sega was a pick up and play company and when that market was shot, so were they. I don't think you can say fuck sega for the market crashing on them. Just seems so unfair...

I think this is the real and true downfall of sega, always have. Too many pick up and play games... even though in today's mobile market that will work for them...

Yes, it is important to remember that Sega was always an arcade company, and because they were so big in the arcade, it was the reason for them to enter the consumer console market. Sega made over 500 arcade games since 1981, more than anybody else. It was partly because of Suzuki san for them to archive this.

The arcade market was always minor outside of Japan since about 1995, and they still made most of the money in Japan. In Japan Sega gave hooks that make them money to this day. Physical cards, abiliy to save your progress and easy access internet infrastructure evolved Japanese arcades into more of a "internet cafe" enviorment with deeper, competetive, MMO-type experiences rather than pick up and play. Which is why Sega today succeeds in the mobile market with deeper as well as quicker experiences.

Sega isn't bad, they just abandoned the west in favour of buying western studios and Sonic.

[Hyo Razuki]

As far as Sega is concerned nowadays, I really just don't care anymore. I've got no hatred or frustration towards them. They are what they are. The Yakuza games and Valkirya Chronicles being the only really great games they've brought out during the last ten years or so,

But, as Jackie said correctly, no one forces you to buy their crap and they have no God-given duty to bring PSO or Yakuza to western markets. If they as a company decide not to bring their best products to the overseas markets, well that's their prerogative. I think it's a stupid decision not to at least bring a subtitled version to the West as they did whith Yakuza 2, but you know, if they rather choose to ruin their brand name by bringing out the 1275th crappy Sonic game, it's their choice.

I don't care about them anymore. I'm even somehow glad, they're staying out of the development of Shenmue 3. The Sammy Sega is not the same company as the Isao Okawa Sega. That's unfortunate, but it's the way life goes, so nothing you can do about it.

On a side note: How anyone could like JSRF better than the original is beyond me. JSRF is weaker in so many aspects, from level design to character design, mission structure and the watered-down tagging without commands and of course the soundtrack.

Don't get me wrong, I think JSRF is a very good game by itself, just not nearly as great as the first one.

[freakycritter]

Sega's worldwide presence has gotten so bad that the Shenmue 3 bomb at E3 was the most exposure something Sega related got since 2002.

[Hyo Razuki]

^Sad but true.