Kickstarter Update #47

[LucBu]

I disagree, and do not want that conclusion associated with my post, incidentally. I respect your opinion, however.

Anonymous, you honestly cannot not want his conclusion associated with your post and still respect his post. I know you're trying to be nice, but to truly respect your opponents you can't hold back. Oh my, I'm starting to sound like the Chi You Men. I need Shenmue 3 ASAP. ;)

[shredingskin]

I disagree, and do not want that conclusion associated with my post, incidentally. I respect your opinion, however.

Anonymous, you honestly cannot not want his conclusion associated with your post and still respect his post. I know you're trying to be nice, but to truly respect your opponents you can't hold back. Oh my, I'm starting to sound like the Chi You Men. I need Shenmue 3 ASAP. ;)

Hand over the opinion, or else... your son...

[Zoltor]

I think those hoping for a Ryo that looks just like he did in S1&2 but just with much higher detail and resolution may be disappointed. The technology being used is going to result in a qualitatively different look and feel, no matter how close they try to approximate it.

It's a bit like - and this is a horrible analogy but - the Creation suite in a wrestling game or an RPG being upgraded from one installment in a series to the next, and trying to create the same character you played as in a previous game. No matter how close the dimensions and proportions and features get, it's never going to look exactly the same.

A better analogy might be Zoe from Dreamfall Chapters versus her model in Dreamfall: The Longest Journey. (With the former being another Kickstarted game, albeit made in Unity rather than UE.) While the new model is - imho - recognizable as Zoe, the way her face animates among other design considerations fundamentally alters the way she looks. No matter how stylized, there's no way for them to really perfectly reproduce the original look and animation of the first iteration of her character. And that's before you even consider intentional changes or updates they might have made.

I suspect this will be true of Ryo as well. I do think he will improve, but I don't expect him to have super thin lips and a semi-permanent scowl like he did on Dreamcast. Different times, different technologies, different tools, different aesthetic considerations.

Personally, that won't bother me. I just want Shenmue 3. But I do understand why others feel more adamant about it.

This is just a perfect example of how new technologies, Isn't always a good thing.

The really sad thing is, they're making less of a game then they could be making, just because they're using these "new" technologies that is doing nothing, but actually taking away from the "organic", realistic feel.

You got all of that, based on what exactly? You say this and get Kid NoCon's HD videos have the Shenmue flair but is made with these new technologies? If you're going to make the statement that the new tech takes away from the organic and realistic feel, you'll have to back that opinion up with actual facts.

Well Kid NoCon's video's didn't have characters or anything of the sort, nor did it try anything fancy with lighting effects.


With the screen shots in this thread, I see nothing wrong with the last SS really, with the house. CG, and anything living has always been a recipe for disaster, especially when they're more focused on using newer technology, for no good reason.

Is it such a hard thing, to just bloody improve/build upon what already exists?

Good Lord. How old are you? You couldn't be a day older than 17 with that sort of "logic".

I'm 36, there is absolutely nothing we should be happy about looking at any part of those char designs or lighting in those SSs.

The scary part is, Yu had the gull to show such off, so clearly he's pretty happy with the progress.

With char designs like that, and lighting effects so bad, it would be better not having lighting effects at all, It's going to directly effect the story telling.

That shader needs to be completely deleted from the engine then, because It's the worst thing ever conceived of(all it seems to do, is make everything look overly shiny, and unless the mapping is super dark, too bright). Is Yu making a crappy western CG animated movie or a game sigh?


I'm having a bad feeling that Yu writing a book, would've been a better idea then making Shenmue 3.

I don't think Yu has what it takes anymore, he's always going abaout oh he can do so much more with modern technologies, bla, bla, bla, but if this is a taste of that so called more, do we really want that?

Then there's the whole ragdoll physics nonsense in the stretch goals. All Yu seems to be focusing on, is playing with a new toy(aka Unreal 4). Instead of thinking first, and foremost about what would be fitting in a Shenmue 3, he's more about, haven't done this yet, so that must be good.

OMG I hate the coding mentality. Yu, please stop acting like a coder, you're the lead game designer, and director for crying out loud.

I seriously can't believe people are defending those SS, and a certain thing he said in a past interview about the battle system(which I've already talked enough about)

[shredingskin]

The scary part is, Yu had the gull to show such off, so clearly he's pretty happy with the progress.

I don't think Yu has what it takes, he always going abaout oh he can do so much more with modern technologies, bola, bla, bla, but if this is a taste of that so called more, do we really want that.

Then there's the whole ragdoll physics nonsense in the stretch goals. All Yu seems to be focusing on, is playing with a new toy(aka Unreal 4). Instead of thinking first, and foremost about what would be fitting in a Shenmue 3, he's more about, haven't done this yet, so that must be good.

OMG I hate the coding mentality. Yu, please stop acting like a coder, you're the lead game designer, and director for crying out loud.

I seriously can't believe people are defending those SS, and a certain thing he said in a past interview about the battle system(which I've already talked enough about)

I edited to make the responses:

- He has said that he'll make monthly updates, it's not that "he's happy showing" it's that he made a pact with us, and he fucking delivered in a great way.

- He already said that SIII will be more intimate, that they are trying to get the designs smaller to do the Shenmue feel come alive.

- Shenmue free battle is a part of the real Shenmue, it will not be the same, but also it won't be Shenmue if they scrapped that.

- Yu designer mentality is what made SIII to have various prototypes. Yu coding mentality is what made Shenmue revolutionary in times when no one thought things like that could be made.

- Those screnshots are pretty much what you can call a mockup to pitch, he shared those with us.
He said it's not the final model, that the angles were to not give us spoilers (and test scene enviro), and that they're still working on it. What more do you want ?

[Himuro]

Shreding, we may not agree on politics but we are completely united in our love for Shenmue. Agree 100%!

[Zoltor]

The scary part is, Yu had the gull to show such off, so clearly he's pretty happy with the progress.

I don't think Yu has what it takes, he always going abaout oh he can do so much more with modern technologies, bola, bla, bla, but if this is a taste of that so called more, do we really want that.

Then there's the whole ragdoll physics nonsense in the stretch goals. All Yu seems to be focusing on, is playing with a new toy(aka Unreal 4). Instead of thinking first, and foremost about what would be fitting in a Shenmue 3, he's more about, haven't done this yet, so that must be good.

OMG I hate the coding mentality. Yu, please stop acting like a coder, you're the lead game designer, and director for crying out loud.

I seriously can't believe people are defending those SS, and a certain thing he said in a past interview about the battle system(which I've already talked enough about)

I edited to make the responses:

- He has said that he'll make monthly updates, it's not that "he's happy showing" it's that he made a pact with us, and he fucking delivered in a great way.

- He already said that SIII will be more intimate, that they are trying to get the designs smaller to do the Shenmue feel come alive.

- Shenmue free battle is a part of the real Shenmue, it will not be the same, but also it won't be Shenmue if they scrapped that.

"- Yu designer mentality is what made SIII to have various prototypes. Yu coding mentality is what made Shenmue revolutionary in times when no one thought things like that could be made."

- Those screnshots are pretty much what you can call a mockup to pitch, he shared those with us.
He said it's not the final model, that the angles were to not give us spoilers (and test scene enviro), and that they're still working on it. What more do you want ?

There's a huge flaw with that statement, Yu was great at making stuff happen from the ground up, however with Shenmue 3, he's being forced to work around the built in limitations of a engine that already exists.

Many people are used to working on games that way(including myself), but not Yu. Building something from scratch, to do exactly what you want, is very different from using already made developer tools/engines, and working around the built in limitations. The really disturbing thing about this all, is Yu is constantly saying how great these newer technologies are, and how much more he can do, yet nothing he has shown or even said, backs that up at all.

As for promising updates, there's a lot of things he can post for updates, without posting SSs of some of the worst character designs ever made, that we can now only hope he thinks are atrocious as well.

[shredingskin]

They had to kickstart the project, building an engine (even while UE has some royalties) it's time and money wasted (see Jonathan Blow job [not a pun]).

UE has open code, do you think it's wise to develop a new engine with physics and rendering ? If they want they can change what they don't want. But building something from nothing seems reckless for an indie dev.

About the new tech and nothing to show, yes, I agree, and I'm also afraid that he may get carried away.

About the pics, I do not think they are bad, and I love the guy for giving us love by showing stuff that NO GAME in a 3 month development would give. It's a backer update, but they never made the updates to be private, and it's far better than ANY 2 month update I got from a KS (ok, nothing will shake me like Shenmue does).

But come on, I get you, but saying that SIII should have DC-engine (something that it's more expensive to port than 5% royalties), it's just weird.

[Zoltor]

They had to kickstart the project, building an engine (even while UE has some royalties) it's time and money wasted (see Jonathan Blow job [not a pun]).

UE has open code, do you think it's wise to develop a new engine with physics and rendering ? If they want they can change what they don't want. But building something from nothing seems reckless for an indie dev.

About the new tech and nothing to show, yes, I agree, and I'm also afraid that he may get carried away.

About the pics, I do not think they are bad, and I love the guy for giving us love by showing stuff that NO GAME in a 3 month development would give. It's a backer update, but they never made the updates to be private, and it's far better than ANY 2 month update I got from a KS (ok, nothing will shake me like Shenmue does).

But come on, I get you, but saying that SIII should have DC-engine (something that it's more expensive to port than 5% royalties), it's just weird.

Yes, I know that, I'm just pointing out the fact Yu has never done so, ever before. He's not used to thinking around something that has preset features, and whatnot.

Sure he "could" disable certain aspects, thus allowing him to manually add his version of such aspects, but is he likely to even think of doing so? Most likely not, because he never had to think that way before.

[shredingskin]

He didn't because mainstream (almost) free engines didn't exist back then (he had to use military hardware for his creations in the past ).

I can't know what he thinks, but (by the way he told us) he knows what Shenmue fucking is.

I don't see him riding the unicorn to farland, I read about a guy that it's working 18 hours a day, and that want us to be happy about what he's making.

Japan is very closed to the new engines, it's fucking true, but I see that he's working with that and not against that (that I think is the best way to go).

As far as I can see, he is doing Shenmue III.

[SheepheadCG]

Couldn't agree with you more shredingskin. It seems to me that you are just nitpicking over every little aspect Zoltar. Yu is showing us stuff that other devs wouldn't dream of, because WE funded the game. It's a deal he made with us. Yu didn't get to where he is today by being some mediocre scrub, the man is a fucking legend. He knows what he is doing... Have some faith in the man and give him a break!

[Himuro]

Why is Zoltar treating Suzuki and his team like they are a bunch of fucking nobodies?

[ys]

No idea, considering the fact that he got some key figures from the Shenmue days mixed with new people. That doesn't seem to be a bad combination to me. And Yu told in interviews that he wrote some programming code now and then to keep up to date.
But maybe things will turn out badly, who knows? It just feels too early to judge at this point.

Many users on other sites seem to have decided already though. I saw people who already knew that the game was going to be shit based on the fighting stance in these very early screenshots.

[Yokosuka]

Couldn't agree with you more shredingskin. It seems to me that you are just nitpicking over every little aspect Zoltar. Yu is showing us stuff that other devs wouldn't dream of, because WE funded the game. It's a deal he made with us. Yu didn't get to where he is today by being some mediocre scrub, the man is a fucking legend. He knows what he is doing... Have some faith in the man and give him a break!

I don't think Yu read us and we know Zoltor is a true fan, I'm sure he has given a lot of money.

I understand him on pretty much points. Yu is a legend but Shenmue III is another challenge :

First time he works on a true video game since ages. Video gaming has evolved without him. The fact he does not know well modern gaming might result an all-or-nothing situation.

First time he works on a console game with a small budget and team. And not with the Sega cream of the crop this time. Kid Nocon may have accomplished a marvelous work, we don't know exactly his teamwork ability and how efficient he really is, so the risk is still there.

Yu is not perfect, he's still mainly a man from Arcade and assumed mistakes in previous Shenmue (the lack of time accelerator, the dub), has half failed all his previous works (Sega Race TV looks uninspiring, Shenmue Online and City crashed where he could have his part of responsibility).

That does not mean I have not faith in Yu. Let me clear, I would always prefer an outdated Suzuki rather than a Kojima or someone else talented from Sega. And at the moment, I'm still highly confident about Shenmue III quality. Just for say, I see nothing really wrong about pessimistic opinions (apart from general websites trolls)

[Zoltor]

Why is Zoltar treating Suzuki and his team like they are a bunch of fucking nobodies?

Just pointing out how it is, Yu hasn't made anything in ages, he has made some very questionable remarks(and that's being very generous), he's being forced to work in a way he has never done so before, and nothing about the char designs looks promising(maybe such would fly as a action figure toy lol, but definitely not as char models for a game).

Yu is a Legend yes, but his method of forcing himself to acclimate him self with the use of new tech, is no going over good.

He's being mystified over stuff he shouldn't be mystified over, and that is leading him to make some very bad decisions.

[Jibby]

This is ridiculous. I can't believe that there are people here who actually think that it would be viable to make Shenmue III using the original Shenmue engine.
One minute, you complain that these pre-pre-alpha screenshots don't look good enough and point to a shit Shenmue and then next you suggest that using the DC engine would somehow make it all better? As if that engine is completely flawless? Do you not understand just how limited that would make the game. Remember all of those stretch goals that we so hope to achieve? They wouldn't be possible using the old engine. Maybe Shenmue III could have been done back in the day on that engine, but we need to stop living in the past. Shenmue III isn't a game from multiple generations ago, it's a game for the current gen and that needs to be expected and accepted otherwise it isn't going to be an enjoyable experience for anyone.

And for those who think that these incredibly early screenshots suggest that YS.NET don't know what they are doing, can we please use this as a reminder of just how much things can change:

Lan Di (Project Berkley)


Lan Di (Final)